What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

yeah, lifeinlimbo.

a whole lot more happened ot my dd1 in the hour between her vaccinations and the onset of illness than I have previously said.

I mean, there was so much opportunity, given the timeframe, and given that she was 3 days old, in a cot on a hospital ward.

yep, must have been all those other things that I neglected ot mention before

for the same reasons, I cant believe you have continued this thread for 24 pages.

That is what you need to think about - separating cause and effect. It is human nature to link things that happen close in time, and to look for causes, but you are looking in the wrong place.

lifeinlimbo- you do realise that there is a compensation fund for vaccine damaged children? Do you think the government have paid out millions for no reason?

Instead of posting aggressively, insulting everyone and calling people on here 'nobs' etc, you could take courses in biology, biochemistry, physiology, pharmacology, medicine.
You sound very interested in this, and you could do it at home through the Open University. Then you would really be very knowledgeable.

I'm knowledgeable in all aspects of ASD an know there has been no research into epigentic triggers producing any meaningful answers: our understanding is far too embryonic.

A friend's DD was severe;y damaged by vaccines and awarded a few million. Why do you think they did that? It was becuase the vaccine caused her severe brain damage of course.

Ah, just in it for the money then? Now I understand why they are arguing so vociferously and offensively!

I understand that the government does sometimes have to act contrary to scientific advice: to placate people who have been whipped into a frenzy by irresponsible journalism in the media and/or for political reasons.

PMSL

As far as I am aware nobody on this thread has a thought of a claim. They just amde decisions about their own children.

The girl I know suffered immediate and severe reaction, fits and lost all use of limbs: at teh age of 12 she learned to smile. i think it was a severe anaphalactic reaction although I was 16 when her dad explained and am 37 now so some time has elapsed.

Don;t worry Leonie tis fine

Money? I so wish LOL! If bloody only.....

I am pretty sure that the risk involved in being vaccinated is far lesser than the risk in not being vaccinated.

Otherwise why would any government fund (expensive) free vaccinations?

To my mind it is a no brainer.

The facts are that there is no scientific proof for this, and a link between ASD and MMR HAS been researched extensively AND has been ruled out. So, as far as anyone can reasonably claim, there is no link.

Children can suffer epileptic fits, which can be disabling, and sometimes these start occuring around the same time as vaccinations are given to millions of children. Some think that the vaccination can be a trigger for fits, in the same way that bright/flashing lights can be a trigger. This doesnt imply that the epilepsy was caused by the vaccine, as it would have already been present.

Toastie I think the risk to society is bigger in peple not being vaccinated (personal opinion) but on anindividual level it HAS to vary- everyone presents with a different set of genetics, allergies, risk factors: not only different but unknown too.

That's not vaccination specific either- a recent study in the US found a similar truth about living alongside freeways. The point in research ATM seems to be as simple as there are many, many genetic potenials, and we don;t yet fully understand how they interact either with each other (there's some theories about how diffeerent genes mixed can ameliorate or enhance ASD if teh ASD geneis present- I am not only really talking about ASD but that's my field, sorry).

We also don;t know much about how the environment interacts with genetics- except that they do.

A big problem is that a lot of disorders that people ascribe to ASD have yet to be properly catalogued themselves. There is no 'autism', only a bunch of symptoms that present together. You can't really get anywhere with that! Once the individual causalities have been understood then we may be able to look at the gentics and how they interplay but we are at the birth of the research. That's exciting but we have so far to go.

So are you saying that we should all stop having our kids and ourselves vaccinated and take the risk of dying?

You're sort of wrong LifeInLimbo.

You are right that no link between ASD and MMR has been established but that's for the reason given in my last post. I don;t know if one will be; as an MA student I try to keep an open mind. That means not writing off the possibility as well as not accepting the link.

We know zilch about ASD really, so little. give us fifty years maybe then we might start getting there perhaps? But this idea of asd as any singular entity is just a misunderstanding of the nature of the diagnosis. All it means is that the child developed issues with social interaction, language (not always spoken), behavioural issues (suuch as obsessiions but not always)..... maybe a learning disorder. And that must have been visisble before the age of three.

Think how very many presentations and disorders that could encompass! There's already lots of research identifying different brian areas, stuff about sensory issues being alrgely culpable, theories about empathy imbalances especially in Asperger's Disorder...... it's fascinating. But not any one thing.

Of course the DSM is likely to categorise it all as ASD when it is produced anew but that's still the case- it's just to reinforce the nature of the spectrum.

Who Toastie?

I have fur kids; first two had MMR and every injection.

Ds3 regressed after MMR so didn;t have booster but I don;t think we did the wrong thing- I think something would ahve triggered it in him whatever (ds1, my Grandad, my Aunt, my cousin, my Mum, me to an extrent all have AS or Autism anyway- in reality if not diagnosed. DH, FIL, MIL have different but potentially related disorders such as dyslexia and OCD).

DS4 has ahd single emasles; he will have single rubella when I get the cash together but we are struggling a bit ATM for a host of reasons. I;d like him to have mumps single but it's no longer amde, if he ahs not had wild virus by adolescence we will reconsider MMR i think.

Hardly anti vaccination; just not- ready to commit to an absolute either way. By a mile.

oh ok, so now it is epilepsy that has onset at "around the time vaccines are given" (woudl that be 6 weeks, or 12? 4 months? 6 months? 13 months? 4 years? - which is the "around the time vaccines are given" that you are referring to, please?)

earlier in the thread, it was ASD that became apparent "around the time vacines are given" again, no specific vaccine mentioned, nor a specific age.

what about the MNer who has a child who regressed at the age of 4 having been given mmr? is that still ASD appearing "around the age vccines are given" - a child who had been deceloping absolutely bang on the nail typically, and regressed and lost all speech/function at the age of 4.

I mean, she could hardly have missed severe ASD signs before that, could she?

or is that too just a coincidence?

vaccine damage has been proven, time and again, with a variety of outcomes.

to state that anyone who has reported a reaction in their child post vaccine is only in it for the money is offensive and ridiculous.

woudl you care to offer an alternative suggestion for what might have happened, coincidentally, to my dd, while she was in hospital? what we might have missed in the comprehensive health analysis that was undertaken once she started being ill post vaccines?

Um, I remember when I did my urse training being taught about vaccine damage and that it could happen for a variety of reason- some physiological (muscular injections going into wrong aplce for example).

Nobody denies vaccine damage if they are experienced; ASD is not a given from research (yet?) but it happens. Rarely. Anaphalaxis estimated here as 1.54 per million caes; but that's either your child or not here

Sorry, 1.53

Presumably those banging on about "vaccine damage" are just as vociferous on warning people about "paracetamol damage" because that's the level of "risk" you're talking about.

LTW - it would be helpful if you would acknowledge that the risk is different for each child. One child's disease preventing vax is another child's trigger. We are all very different. (Thankfully ) One size does not fit all.

here's the thing : windward and lil are talking bollocks and know it

myths
it's proven that there's no link between vaccines and autism or auto-immune disorders -- absolutely not true

there is no evidence of a link between vaccines and autism o auto-immune disorders -- absolutely not true

lil and windward are big fat trolly wankers

I think that's about the level of cogency and sophistication they're aiming at

well I never dd

myths

i's proven that there's no link between vaccines and autism or auto immune disorders: absoltely 100pc not true

there is no evidence of a link between vaccines/autism/auto immune disorders: absolutely 100pc not true