What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

Mumps isn't actually a killer in the sense that it kills the sufferer, but it can lead to miscarriages in pregnant women, meningitis,enchephalitis,and infertility in males.

With Rubella, the same cross infection can occur which can lead to the baby either being miscarried or infected with life-long incurable diseases.

Ditto measles (death or blindness)

Allegedly...

chicken pox is headed the same way.

once seen as a common, routine childhood illness.

then there's a vaccine, and all of a sudden it's a serious, killer disease (yes, I know complications are a possibility)

dd1 got chicken pox while we were on holiday in the USA.

that was fun. not.

www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1109.aspx?CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=137

Complications are rare, of course..but then probably just as rare as vaccine damage perhaps?

Sitting on the fence here!

Dh had a colleague who died after contracting chicken pox.

Ruebella devastated the lives of thousands before immunisation.

Roald Dahl and Patrica Neal's daughter died from measles.

The lethal nature of these illnesses is not made up.

the hypithesis on autism alone is that 7% of autistic children may be damaged by the mmr.

the autism rate in the uk currently stands at 1 in 64 children being diagnosed.

that is not a small number (either the dx rate, or the potential nuber being damaged form that one vaccine alone)

the devastating effects of vaccine damage are not made up either.

Not usually dangerous to healthy, well fed children but many of them are dangerous to expectant mothers and their babies, to the immunosuppressed. Where you have malnourished children such as the third world or parts of the UK less than 100 years ago very dangerous.

I accept that by and large our population is healthy enough for many individuals to shrug off these 'childhood' diseases but there will always be a vulnerable segment of society and if we can protect them we should by vaccinating all children and adults who can take the vaccine.

so wouldn't it make sense to vaccinate pre-pubescent girls with rubella, rather than 8 week old babies of both genders?

vaccinate 11 year olds, you might have a chance of immunity when they are trying to have children then.

just one example of how fucked up the vax schedule is in this country.

oh and NOTHING protects an expectant mother against rubella better than having had the disease in childhood and acheiving lifelong immunity.

no chance of that these days.

yes, agree chicken pox about to be promoted to killer disease too. ffs.

of course there can be (rare) complications, from almost any virus. including a cold.

Indeed, BeerTricksPotter..it is roulette, vaccine or disease? do I vaccinate and risk damage/death or allow the chance of disease with risk of damage/death?

It's a bloody tricky dilemma of the worst kind :(

Northernlurker, CP is potentially more dangerous in adulthood which is why it is important to gain immunity to it in childhood.

Rubella is dangerous for a developing foetus which is why it would be better for a woman to be naturally immune to it so she can protect her unborn child.

Mumps is described as a usually mild self limiting illness and while it is more likely to cause orchitis in adult males there is no evidence that it causes sterility.

One of the main at risk groups for measles is the under 1s - the group that used to be protected by their mother's natural immunity for over a year ( why we don't vaccinate until 13 months). Immunity from a vaccinated mother only lasts up to 6 months. Vaccination has actually allowed thus at risk group to be left vulnerable.

I have recently had experience of children with whopping cough. Not mine, a friend's. Her 2 youngest girls had it. They are not vaccinated, although her older child is, as are my 2. None of the vaccinated children got it. Also, it was going through dds primary school, and was in her class, & again, she didn't get it. It may be possible that friend's dd carried to her sisters?

But her 2 were very poorly because of it. And it was horrendous to watch (we had contact before WC was diagnosed).

Her youngest, not yet 2, was hospitalised due to dehydration. The middle child - asthmatic, previously very mild & hardly needing puffers - now has increased issues with her asthma.

The youngest, at 12mths, was hospitalised previously, same reason - dehydration -, but because of rota virus (we vaccinate against that here). She became so dehydrated that she was not waking up when her mum needed her to. She only tried to wake her as she had to do the kindy run. If she hadn't had to do that, she may never have woken up.

I don't understand how watching her child suffer through that is preferable to vaccinating, but that is my opinion. It hasn't moved her on in her opinion. So in future I will avoid her as much as possible when her children are ill, in case it is

Getting whooping cough doesn't give you lifelong protection against it, you can get it again, just as bad, or worse than before. The vaccination doesn't protect you completely, but does lessen the symptoms somewhat. Again, still possible to have multiple incidences of it.

I can't say I respect her choice, as I feel she is just believing the worse around the vaccinations debate, she doesn't want to hear the other side. It is one subject we no longer discuss.

in case it is anything other than just a common cold, etc

silverfrog said Most people with vaccinated children sit back, smugly thinking they have done their bit, and don't actually look for signs of illnesses such as measles, because of course, their child has been vaccinated. they don't think that their child will be inthe small percentage that won't gain immunity from the vaccine (it is not a given that it will work)......people who have not vaccinated their children are, ime, more vigilant about checking for signs of illnesses, and more likely to stay away form soft play, toddler groups etc if their child has even a moderate cold, s they are well aware it could be building up to something else. whereas the parents of vaccinated children carry on abotu their life, because it couldn't possibly be anythign major, after all, little Johnny has had his jabs

I don't believe that at all! You are implying that you are better, more responsible parent if you don't vaccinate? I'm sorry, I want to say this is bollocks!

As I stated below, my friend's middle & youngest child had WC recently. It took my friend 6 weeks to take her youngest (who had a hacking cough & was vomiting & was dehydrated) to the dr. She told me after that she 'suspected' her middle daughter had WC, but she didn't do anything about it. The child was coughing & vomiting, struggling to breathe, etc. This is after a letter was sent home from her eldest child's class saying whooping cough was in the class! This was after her dh was diagnosed with it She did nothing! The dr said her middle child had all but recovered, that is how long it took her to get her swabbed!

She was, imo stupid. Her youngest daughter (not even 2) need never have ended up in hospital if she got her girls swabbed as soon as they showed symptoms. They went to kindy, they went to childcare. WITH whooping cough, but no official diagnosis. They spent time with my girls, who went to school, who went to childcare, who spent time with frail grandparents.

So don't go saying that non vaccinating parents are some how super parents, because they are more vigilant! Because that simply isn't true.

I am VERY vigilant in checking my dd's for any illness, I know they are able to contract anything they have been vaccinated against. I am not stupid, I know that vaccines don't give lifelong immunity or are even guaranteed to give any immunity!

Incidentally, I took my girls to be swabbed AS SOON as one showed even mild symptoms. And KEPT THEM HOME until I got the all clear! That took 5 days.

They have time off school if ill, my daughter got 95% attendance this year, her daughter got 100%, but was sent to school with colds etc, tummy aches (when her sister had rota virus) & when they had WC in the family. She was somehow very proud & boastful of that 100%!

She was somehow very proud & boastful of that 100%, but I can't helping thinking to what cost of others?

why are you worried anyway if you've vaccinated your children then surely you should feel happy that they will never get ill

How stupid...of course vaccinated children get ill [with the diseases they are vaccinated against]...do those who don't vaccinate really believe that us who do, believe this?

Also, the risk is there for others, via a vaccinated child. I am well aware that my child could have gotten WC, it may have been milder. But she could have passed it to her frail grandmother, or to an unprotected baby.

We have had a death of a baby to WC in my area recently. She was too young to be vaccinated.

I can't stand some of the sanctimonious crap pro vaccination people come out with sometimes

One poster believes she is a better parent (than vaccinating parents) because she doesn't vaccinate! So the sanctimonious crap is flung from both sides, imo!

To end my posting frenzy, I would to say that I am not about to get into the vaccinate or not fight. I don't have any interest in arguing about it.

I vaccinate my children, for them. Purely selfish. I like to know that they have some level of protection.

My main problems are

• My friend should have done something sooner wrt her ill children. She exposed a lot of people to WC because she took 6 weeks to act. She also should have told people her dh was diagnosed with it.

• One poster on here saying that she is a better parent as she doesn't vaccinate & therefore is more vigilant.

I don't have an issue with people deciding to do what they think is best for their families. I do have an issue with any side believing it makes them better parents!

You know, thousands of mothers could post much more heart rending stories than yours about vaccine damage and death.

Or their "friends" could post them, possibly describing the mothers as "stupid" for giving their children the vaccine that led to the reaction.

They would instantly be accused of irresponsible anecdotal scaremongering. In fact one such mother on this thread has been accused of lying.

So either accept the accusation of irresponsible anecdotal scare-mongering, or accept that the tesimonies of those women carry just as much weight, in any decision making and risk benefit analysis, as your own.