What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

Windward i feel the same way about talking to idiots. God speed :)

Looktowindward - well you've missed the point then because obviously it IS relevant to the unvaccinated child if they are surrounded by adults who also have no immunity to the disease because their immunity to the vaccine has worn off. How can you say that that risk is any less than the one posed by a child who hasn't been vaccinated? I have in no way presented the argument as 'vaccinations wear off, why bother".

Also, I'd still like to hear your interpretation of the figures from the Saudi Arabia measles outbreak when you get a chance. If you are going to dismiss it as irrelevant it would be nice to know why. I am genuinely curious about where this 95% target for herd immunity comes from if there are still outbreaks despite it.

a tiny minority may cause ad adverse reaction but that doesn't matter
Fucking hell I'll tell severely disabled vaccine damaged sister that her adverse reaction didn't matter that her ruined, pain filled life isn't important shall I as long as shes vaccinated eh?.
That tiny minority are someones children, someones life, to say it doesn't matter that they are damaged as long as its for the greater good is fucking horrible.

but that is exactly what the vocal pro-vaxxers rely on, cat.

it doesn't matter baout the collateral damage (collateral damage that wrecks lives - your sister, my daughter, other people's children and siblings)

all those people who just blindly say "don't question, don't hesitate. vaccinate. it is the only way"

htye ignore damage (or accuse oyu of making it up ) because it is inconvenient to them.

as long as it is a small minority - hey, it's all for the good of the majority, isn't t? so what are you comlaining about?

I'm sorry to hear about your children with disabilities. If there was a proven link to vaccination I hope that they are compensated.
It is tragic and heartbreaking.

However, can you not understand that without vaccination there would be thousands more children with mild, moderate and severe disabilities? Hundreds of children would die every year.

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. How did the vaccines affect them? Please tell us your storyX

Well we just need to hope your children aren't victims of preventable diseases either. Those of you who haven't vaccinated at all - your child is playing at a friend's house in their tree house or 'den'. They catch their hand on a rusty nail - it's not a huge wound but it's deep. Will they be having a tetanus jab then or will you carry on with your position of no vaccination?

And nor will mine. Especially when i don't even believe it is for the greater good.

Oh do read lurker.

1. It's about infection through a population. Different diseases have different infection vectors on different aspects of a population. Its why some vaccinations are given earlier and repeatedly with boosters and why some are hardly bothered with aside from "at risk" groups. Imagine a table laid out with playing cards. An infectious disease spreads out from card to card depending on the characteristics of that population and the disease itself, age, social make up, gender, methods of infection, etc etc. The aim of the vaccination is to protect enough people that the disease can't jump between playing cards and spread. Some cards might not need vaccinating as they might be too far away from the "at risk" cards, others may be vaccinated with regular boosters as the way they interact with the "at risk" cards is such that they present a high risk.

Okay, a crap analogy but enough to demonstrate the point.

1. As someone else has pointed out Saudi has a huge transient population - many from under developed countries with poor or non existent vaccination programmes. I would argue that if anything it shows how easily a small number of unvaccinated individuals can undermine a programme.

Anyway, I really am to bed now.

northernlurker: that would entirely depend on the situation and circumstances at the time.

I was bitten by a dog last year - deep puncture wound and tear (the bugger ogt a really good hold and a chew ), but having taken advice had no tetanus jab.

it isn't as clear cut as you want to make it.

I hae not refused vaccinations for my daughter on a whim.

I have weighed up the evidence that is relevant to her, and made a decision.

obviously, that decision is not set in stone. vaccination is not a once-only chance.

if there is ever a situation where dd2 is at more risk form not having a vaccination than she is at risk form having it, then that is a no-brainer.

but i suspect that to change the sitation to that degree would take more than a rusty nail, tbh.

"Fucking hell I'll tell severely disabled vaccine damaged sister that her adverse reaction didn't matter that her ruined, pain filled life isn't important shall I as long as shes vaccinated eh?.
That tiny minority are someones children, someones life, to say it doesn't matter that they are damaged as long as its for the greater good is fucking horrible."

People have terrible adverse reactions to all kinds of things. Paracetamol and penicillin to name but two. Does that mean we shouldn't use paracetamol or that antibiotics aren't hugely useful?

Thought you sodded off with tail between legs.

This debate will rage on and on. No one will back down, no one will concede.

As for us, after taking advice from our lovely GP, we had our son fully vaccinated without a qualm.

Frankly, it's personal choice and I really don't care what other parents do, or what happens to their children.

looktowindward - you tried using that argument before.

it didn't make snese then, and it still doesn't now.

peole who react to penicillin are not expected to take penicillin. same with antibiotics.

no one questions the reaction, and it is noted for future caution with siblings/other family members.

yet time and again when posters have said why they are cautios wrt jabs, you dismiss their views, and make out that they should vaccinate regardless.

I have never said that nobody should be vaccinated (your equivalent of "shoud we not use penicillin"), nor that vaccination programmes should be stopped.

I ahve said that more research should be done to find out which children may be susceptible to being damaged, and that my children will not be offered up as sacrifices to the cause of herd immunity.

Oh Northern lurker fuck off seriously My GP my DCs pead all agreed vaccines for us are a bigger risk and that for us not to vaccinate is that so hard to understand? I was unvaccinated because of our history. My sister was compensated if you could call it that as she said no amount of money (and it wasn't a huge payout) will compensate for the last 34 years spent in pain, in a wheelchair. My sister was developing normally she was given the pertussis vaccine, she suffered a fit within minutes followed by a cardiac arrest, she was resuscitaed, she now has a very severe rare form of guillian barre syndrome, hundreds of allergies, neuropathy, pain, spasms need I go on...

Stupid argument. It means some people shouldn't. Which is rather the point.

Well silver said it better than me.

Exactly right Mymblesson.

I really don't get either sides vehement arguments and snipes at each other.

Vaccinate your children or don't. I really couldn't care less about some strangers children or what happens to them.

Everyone should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Actually i DO care what happens to vaccinated children, very much. Poor things.

But then it's never ending as people would just easily say they feel so sorry for kids who haven't been vaccinated.

It's so circular, it's about time it came to an end.

Actually pro vaxers who spout bullshit ought not to get araucanos with it, hence it goes on.

Thank you for answering my question silverfrog. Your position 'if there is ever a situation where dd2 is at more risk form not having a vaccination than she is at risk form having it, then that is a no-brainer' is imo the only sensible response to this question.
I don't see why asking that question draws the response that I need to 'fuck off' though? Does it bother you that much? surely you've asked yourselves that question?