... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

you dont get housing benefit if you have a mortgage. Even if you earn under 15k. Weirdly enough if you are renting you do.

You can get something towards the interest, but that's only after 9 months. IMO, that's not fair.

But I don't think it should contribute towards the capital as that would mean the state are paying for the claimant's investment.

We earn 21k combined before tax and NIand we dont get hb or benefits. We get a little towards childcare but thats it. I know literally loads of people in the same situation as me

If you're renting and moved to a more expensive property then you probably would get some HB.

DonkeyD my DH has spent last 15 yrs in Investment banking and can confirm that our salaries are 10 years behind the "US-style" salaries per role and are actually in need of correcting.

"Violethill, as a Deputy Head you should know a bit about social and educational poverty. Your choices were half-chance and so are everyone else's."

Yeap - I am no different to anyone else. That's what I was saying. And I've been a Head of Dept in an inner city multi ethnic comp - so leave off with the lecturing thanks.

Speaking as a deputy head who has worked in inner city schools I have worked hard for my standard of living but all that work would not have added up to much without a good dollop of luck.

frgr

Are you still here? Interested in the people you are being rude about?

Hope you get a chance to catch up on the previous threads. Your sweeping assumptions are so unfounded, perhaps your gripes should be directed at those who deserve it ie. those who claim when they shouldn't, hence increasing tax. Taxes are screwing us all.

Agree with Violethill. Oh and I would disagree that someone attending an inner city multi ethnic comp automatically doesnt or can't regard a high income as a choice.

Yes - there is an element of luck in all out lives. My point is that as far as 'luck' is concerned, we're all in the same boat aren't we. Any of us could get struck down by some god awful disease, or one of our children could have some terrible accident tomorrow. I just don't buy this idea that if you work hard, and invest in your future through the choices you make, then somehow that's pure 'luck'. I went to school with dozens of peers who were bright enough and could have achieved well but pissed about. Some of them have gone on to decide they want more out of life, and some of them haven't. That's not luck - it's choice

'
If you're renting and moved to a more expensive property then you probably would get some H'

No not renting in a mortgaged flat with 130k mortgage. A lot of my friends are on that knd of wage and dont get hb/benefits/dentists etc. I dont think its a struggle personally.

I dont think I would need to have HB on my wage as it seems quite high to me. I have some friends that do on the same wage, but I have enough money to live so dont need it. Again it depends on your perceptions I suppose.

violethill You've worked with students from poverty in a senior role yet you think that the "majority" have equal choices? Why are students from poverty so much less likely to end up with an income or profession like yours, then?

If you don't mind giving me a lecture, I'd love to know. Perhaps you truly have cracked this educational disadvantage thing as you have a good salary despite going to a comprehensive (shock, horror!) and having no family money.

Noone is wanting to take away from anyone who works hard, least of all me. But there are people who work very hard and yet do live in poverty. I do not work as hard as many people I know who earn a fraction of what I do. In addition to hard work we need to add judgement and intelligence - but even then luck is there.

VH is right. I moved across the country away from family (mind you I was pretty happy to) and I went back full time when the children were 2 weeks oild and I've worked very hard for 26 years of being a mother and I picked a career I would love but was also well paid and a lot of other things help perhaps, my accent, the fact I look reasonably pretty, slim, all kinds of stuf but most of all motivation and a huge capacity to work hard and hardly ever being ill and a delight in life and my work and family.

Luck? They studied that. Apparently we can make it to an extent. If you're optimistic as I am , every year is better than the last, you seize chances. You don't think what if this failes because you expect it to succeed. My daughter won top prize in a competition as a child. Why? She picked up leaflets for the competition from the floor at an air port. She probably scratched off 100 of them because ehs was so sure she'd win and amazingly she picked top prize. The pessmimist woudl say won't waste my time on that I always fail.

I didn't say everyone has exactly equal choices. I said that to a large extent life is about an element of choice. Which it is. People aren't born equal. Some are cleverer than others, some have better practical skills, some are naturally more confident, some are prettier...... There are plenty of people cleverer than me, and plenty less clever. Some things I'm good at, others I'm not.

My point is that given that we are all unique, a large factor in how your life turns out, is the decisions and life choices you make.

£70k + is beyond my comprehension. We were on way more than £25k before the girl came but since her arrival 10 years ago, we've been earning not much more than that.

We're lucky, though, cos our mortgage isn't too big so we've been able to cope with me giving up work. I know I'm lucky. I also feel quite comfortably off on the whole, though I budget hard and do without new clothes or furniture and such.

All my clothes are supermarket bought. My girl has what she needs plus luxuries from time to time. I am thankful for it all, but I remember when we were earning £15k a year between us and scraping each month to pay the mortgage.

I wouldn't say I'm a typical MNer but then, who is?????

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!

FFS can we just get to the point. Some people earn more than 70K - they are not rich. They have serious tax to pay, work bloody hard and have the usual mortgages, student debts, ill parents, overdrafts, loans etc.

Can we stop slagging off people who earn in excess of this and as such pay the taxes to keep our hositals, benefits, councils, schools going.

Is there anyone with a decent idea of economics out there?

I do think there is an element of truth in that you can create your own luck.

I also think that there is something in how we measure success. By most measures, I've done okay. However the cleverest (and probably nicest) chap I ever met writes as yet unpublished scripts on a hillside in Wales. He has never made a bean nor ever wanted to. He is also the happiest person of my acquaintance. Go figure.

Actually I earn shit wages ,work hard and pay tax too

Xenia - I love your attitude.

I think tbh that's why DH and I have done well -we both came from very poor backgrounds but are both quite similar in that 'no-one will tell us we can't do.....'
it just makes us more determined.

I think fear is a big part of it too -we don't want to be poor again, we don't want to be like our waster siblings so we work and work and fight our way up the ladder....I don't know if that makes sense but it's definately a choice, a very deliberate game plan that has been exhausting and hard and heatbreaking at times but ultimately worth it to see our DD have a safe, secure and wonderous childhood.

Aah but is it serious tax usual?

violethill I agree you need to work hard, However you need luck also. I have worked hard, I have a degree and post grad qualifiations. I was laid off from my job and there are no jobs in my area. I spent hours searching for jobs and found a job in another area and reached the final stage of the selection process. XH went to court and I am now not allowed to move out of this god forsaken small town. Stuck here with no job s in my field to apply for and the only way I can apply for jobs elsewhere is to abandon my daughter. Please note court I WILL NOT DO THIS.

I am facing bankruptcy now and being unsuccessful with any other job I apply for as they say I am over qualified. I suppose I am in this situation because I didn't work hard enough as I am really lazy.

I do not begrudge people who have worked hard earning good salaries but I am seriously offended by people saying that the ONLY reason I don't is I am lazy.

The thing I love about my work, is that it's addictive. There's an adrenaline rush every single day. The money has never been important - it isn't beyond a certain point (although that certain point is at different points for all of us, and lower than most for me). The main thing is the buzz. And at 43, after 20 odd years leaving full-time education, I'm still buzzing. That's lucky, isn't it?

Obviously my not serious tax doesn't count

I knew this thread would turn in to a you should have made better choices thread

so yes ,I do agree now op ...some people on MN do live in a bubble

Yes it is lucky quattro and I think many of us ( and I include myself in this ) think that most people have jobs that are fulfilling. That is one of many types of bubble.

SimplyTes, yes, I am still here, and I am still reading (slowly).

I have, believe it or not, been paying very close attention to this thread, and have been mulling the replies over the course of the day.

I'm happy to admit my mistake when it comes to "income" vs. relative income (depending on where you are in the country) along with a few other points raised in the thread. It was rude of me to say "most" MNers, not "some", etc.

However, as the OP, I do veer away from replying too much in this thread, as it appears either I have explained myself poorly or I am genuinely being unreasonable - both, I think, need some reflection on how I approach things here.

I am more than frustrated at the number of posters who seem to have created this straw man idea that I've said "anyone who earns more than 70k is loaded, you have nothing to complain about", essentially - that wasn't the original point of the thread. At all. It was more to do with those who are complaining about being skint by being unable to afford many things families in this country still perceive as luxuries i.e. from the thread that prompted it, when the OP moaned about not even being able to save £450 a mount, without realising that this is the take-home pay for a large chunk of people here, who do work hard, who haven't had the opportunity, support or natural aptitude to be able to pursue a career paying more than £6 or £7 an hour... and, well, me thinking that perhaps those in a better position should consider themselves thankful for their lot.

I also at the number of posters who seem to think that high wages = hard worker. And that if we want more money, we just have to work more/make better choices.

The simplicity of that attitude astounds me, hence why I'm not sure if it's a productive use of my time to continue to enflame things via this thread.

Perhaps I am guilty of the inverse snobbery others have spoken about. We all make our choices in life, and perhaps I'm too bitter to discuss this topic with an unbiased mind :)

You are very lucky Quattro - I love my job too and despite the fact I'm always bloody knackered I thnak my lucky stars every day ( I've been in jobs where I've been crying driving to work every morning -not a good place to be)

Hang on US, you are defining a bubble as what? Someone who pays less than £50k a year in tax?

Isn't the moral of this thread that we all live in different bubbles? You can define those bubbles according to how much tax is paid if you like, but I'm not sure that's helpful

And isn't the joy of MN that we get to see one another's bubbles?