to think men seem to have taken to MN in their droves recently......and I don't like it

[LadyBlaBlah]

Every thread I go on, there are men putting forward their opinion

I have enough of men in RL. AIBU thinking they should bog off to DN or go play the X Box or something?

I think it depends on your circles though. Working class type of circles ime it is women that talk and shout and make a racket, whilst the men dont say anything hardly ever to each other!

Its a weird thing but men are more happy to sit there not saying anything butthe women I know just want to talk with each other. I cant help it thats why I have to go on forums, facebook, the phone so I dont send my husband and my male friends and family in to an early grave

I know I dominate conversations in RL and it is something I try to not do but I dont even know I am doing it most of the time. My friends are all the same and we all start talking all over each other and everyone trying to get a word in whilst the men look bewildered.

Skirt

Say it like it is

HB - it means basically that you can be privileged without being a git about people who aren't. iyswim

(which she was lurking on, and didn't post)

No, the generalisation implied by the word 'man' in 'mansplain' is there because it describes the behaviour of a man who is blind to his own privilege as a member of men-as-a-group. It's as simple as that.

I am white. If a black person were to use the word 'whitesplaining' to mean exactly what 'mansplaining' means but with reference to a 'racial' division instead of a gendered one I would not presume that it implied that all white people are arrogant shits. I wouldn't berate the person for having come up with a 'crass' neologism that offends the 'gods of diction' without bothering to take a moment to think that it might be meaningful to the person using it. To respond like that would be the height of arrogance. Honestly, my first response would be "oh shit, have I been guilty of that?".

Oh Jesus was that another faux pas, I looked it up and didn't realise it could be such a rude word. Sorry.

Pan. I had a gorgeous cat called Pan once, he died, but I loved him.

But if a man can feel that despite having more than sixty per cent of the conversation, that that still isn't enough, the question arises how much do they feel entitled to.

This is the kind of thing that makes me appreciate the value of Mumsnet as an online space where women are the predominant voices, and although I do value the contributions of most of the male posters, I don't want them to change the overall feel of this being a place for mainly women to exchange views.

Me too Coley.

It simply wouldn't occur to me to say: "that's a really offensive racist term which implies that all white people are privileged wankers and you mustn't use it to describe something you have to endure from arrogant people like me on a regular basis because it makes me feel bad and that's more important than allowing you to describe a behaviour which is the result of the mindset of privilege in a society which has condemned you to be part of the group which isn't privileged and allowed me to part of the group that is".

But then, I suppose that would be a bit of a mouthful.

Skirt- who chipped in on your conversation?

I read BOF's post as 'this being a place for manly women to exchange views.' - No comment!

Ha! A bit of a mouthful, yes, but beautifully put HB

TiggyD - nice to see a man who isn't afraid to show his emoticons.

I understand what you're saying Coleys, I honestly do. but it's a leap. That's all.

A leap from something derogatory aimed at an individual and a word which includes everyone of a gender/race/whatever in that - I just would not make the leap that the person guilty of doing this thing was doing it because 'only a man can' or 'only a black person can'.

I think the confusion comes from the fact it is as you said mainly used by those who bear a grudge against men as a group.

I cannot see men as a group. Only as individuals. Same with black people, white people, women.

Anything that suggests they are a group with common motivations or behaviours is a bit of a joke...there can be common things but it's not possible to generalise hardly at all, really.

Maybe that's part of the reason I dislike feminism so much. It seeks to divide - and I realise many people in the world also seek to divide for the opposite reason - but that doesn't justify divisiveness IMO.

I really am going to bed now. Goodnight.

Tiggy

As for women and other groups having nothing to unite them: yes, yes they do. The common experience of discrimination and oppression.

HB I would actually be really offended if a black person accused me of 'whitesplaining' because I have never discriminated against someone of another race in my LIFE.

Other white people may have done

I have not

I take no responsibility for what others of my race or any other may have done to those of a different race.

Yes I would be offended. I may not say owt but I would consider their remark in poor taste.

There is only so much gender/racial bitterness that is good for a person. Beyond that it turns into defensive racism.

Feminism doesn't divide at all.

It unites women against patriarchal oppression.

And it unites men and women in the struggle for the world to be re-organised so that both halves of humanity can reach their full potential and be happy together without that happiness being built on an unfair foundation. Why would that aspiration divide anyone? Unless you mean it divides people who believe in justice, from those who don't; in which case, you can say that about any movement.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss your understanding of and objections to it cabbage (despite my being ratty with you earlier). I can see where you're coming from: we interpret it very differently because we have very different assumptions to begin with.

Feminism doesn't seek to divide though. Feminism recognises a division that already exists and then seeks to eliminate it.

Noone on here. I'm a member of a few forums, not just Mumsnet. And do you know what, I truly dont get why men would need or want to be on Mumsnet or the like. It just reminds me of that Hugh Grant film when he went to a Gingerbread meeting to hit on women. Not that I'm saying that's the case obviously. The men I know wouldnt be on a parenting forum, but that could be an age thing I guess.

I told DH he was mansplaining something to me (he does this a LOT) and he needed it explained to him - but still does it anyway. Although he stops when I mention he's doing it now - the word itself has more power than a sentence saying "you're telling me how to do something that I know how to do, have done many times and can do better than you". I don't agree it is reserved for the male of the species though - I have been known to do similar myself.

I was thinking about the discussion of the term and thought maybe "cocksplaining" would work instead - indicating that whoever was doing it was a cock (cocky, arrogant person); but then realised that that in itself is sexist, because it generally assumes that the cock is a man anyway. Limits it to the cocks of the world, as opposed to all men, but still indicative of maleness. Preferable to "mansplaining", though?

Will keep thinking...

It sounds suspiciously like it, doesn't it Lenin...

In most cases the genderless word 'patronising' would do the job. When I think of mansplaining I specifically think of the way some men talk to feminists (to tell them why they've got it all so wrong etc). So for me it refers to a behaviour in a very specific, gendered context (eg in the feminist topic on here, or perhaps in the comments on feminist blogs etc). I think that's what the word was coined for originally but perhaps it's being used in a more general way now, I don't know.

Skirt - I can see why some men need or want to be on mumsnet. Especially in the cases of single fathers - they might need some information that isn't forthcoming from their peers, because their peers don't have it as they have wives; and they might feel uncomfortable approaching the wives for any number of reasons.
They might just enjoy the cut and thrust of the conversations on here - they might not be into all the beer-swilling footie talk that some men prefer; there are myriad reasons why men should want to post on here, to be honest. Same as women.

Skirt- I can't speak for other men but I'm on mumsnet because I'm a single father, my children live with me most of the time really. There is a section called Lone parents on here, when I was looking for advice I found it, there is no other site like this for men who have day to day care of their children.

I've used it for cooking advice, washing advice lots of stuff. My male friends wouldn't be able to help me much.

I also did an OU course that involved feminism, without reading the section on here I wouldn't have passed. I want both my children to have equal opportunities, there is a lot to learn on this site.