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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this settles it for me (Education)

79 replies

WashingMachineMum · 14/01/2011 12:43

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12168236

Out of the top 200 schools hitting the target, only 8 were not independant or academically selective schools.

Come September I think it will be worth getting my wallet out for my DD's future.

OP posts:
tigitigi · 14/01/2011 13:31

I think yabr - it is about giving your child the best chance of a good start in life - yes children do do well in schools of all types but it is easier for them to do well and excel in a good private school. Not only are their choices more likely to be skewed towards the more traditional, academic subjects but there will be more input from teachers and smaller classes, better resources etc. added to that teachers will not need to deal with disruptive pupils and so on and it is a no brainer as long as you have the money to do so.

If you can't afford it though you can't afford it. For my part I wish the state sector worked more along the lines of the private in terms of expectations of children etc.

FakePlasticTrees · 14/01/2011 13:32

Looking at that list, I was rather impressed by the number of state schools being at the top, ok, most are selective, but they are still state schools.

OP - looks like that table is a arguement for selective education, not private.

Honeybee79 · 14/01/2011 13:34

Agree with Unrulysun

WhyHavePets · 14/01/2011 13:35

LMAO, you think that private schools don't get disruptive pupils? Grin

Interesting view point I suppose, you are possibly correct about smaller class sizes but the rest is rubbish for various reasons - especially the bit about it being easier for them to excel in a private school. for some dc yes that is true, for others it is totally not. Sweeping statements like that just do not work I am afraid.

penguin73 · 14/01/2011 13:36

How can you judge schools on a target that is applied retrospectively and they knew nothing about?! You might want to research a little deeper - schools could have lots of pupils with 10A/A*s or more but if they chose not to do a language or chose another humanity rather than history or geography they will not be included in the stats.

YABVVU if this is the only research you do.

thebrownstuff · 14/01/2011 13:36

I'm with you on this one wmm

JoanofArgos · 14/01/2011 13:39

Learn to spell 'independent', and then your opinion of what matters might carry some more weight.

There are some kids where, frankly, the teachers deserve a medal for getting an A-C out of them in English and Maths. if the other three of their five aren't what's prescribed by Gove as 'proper' subjects, then who cares? Those who want their children to take only 'academic' subjects can do that, I don't see how it matters if there are some kids in their cohort who do English, Maths, Science and a vocational qualification.

IShallWearMidnight · 14/01/2011 13:42

DD1 is in y13 at a massive state comp, but has smaller class sizes and a LOT more teacher contact time (outwith timetabled lessons) than her friends at both private schools and local grammars (next door county). But the league tables show comparatively poorer results simply because it's not selective (either through ability or ability to pay). I'd much rather she was at her school than any neighbouring ones.

YABU to generalise.

WhyHavePets · 14/01/2011 13:43

So only people who can spell can have an opinion? Confused
How does spelling affect the ability to form an opinion?

I think you are being a bit self important there Joanofargos.

QuickLookBusy · 14/01/2011 13:44

YABU

Do some proper research and look at the facts about your local options.

"A fool and his money are easily parted!"

Goingspare · 14/01/2011 13:48

And (sorry) I went to one of the most academically successful private schools in the country under the old direct grant system, and nobody took Geography and History O level, (too long-winded to explain). I notice that it's not in this table at all, in spite of being right up at the top of the A level league, so something similar must still be happening.

JoanofArgos · 14/01/2011 13:49

I am being nit-picky, I admit Grin

But to deplore the state of state schools (sorry!) and make an assumption based on this study that they're all rubbish, is an annoying enough thing to do anyway - so when you can't even spell the name of what you see as the only possible route, it seems extra daft!

WhyHavePets · 14/01/2011 13:55

I do know what you are saying JoanofA, it just annoys me when people are being pedantic, the only possible outcome is to make someone feel small and/or angry and it does not any releveant point to the discussion.

Basically, i think that, if you have something to add to a conversation you should add it, if the best you can do is "and you spelt this wrong" then dont... of course that could just be me being a bit self important Wink Grin

PixieOnaLeaf · 14/01/2011 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

JoanofArgos · 14/01/2011 13:57

ah but I did say other things too!

And I wouldn't normally do that, but the irony was too great to bear.

cat64 · 14/01/2011 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Cortina · 14/01/2011 14:01

This isn't a private/state school debate but these are my thoughts in reply to a few posts here:

Most private schools are better, most teachers at private schools are better, most people who can afford private schools will choose them. Note I say MOST private schools.

People dare not admit this, they can't afford to go privately (a few may be ideologically opposed) so want to to see flaws in the independent sector and I write this with a son at a state school.

Would my son do better if he were in a class of less than 30, of course! That's what you pay for.

Carrie06 · 14/01/2011 14:05

Move to Northern Ireland - cheaper to live and nice people too. Plus the schools are excellent - loads of grammar schools and for the umpteenth yr running, n. irish kids have outclassed their uk mainland counterparts in A-level results (probably at GCSE too but not definite on that). Not sure if there are any private schools in N. ireland but the comps/high schools are good too and when you look at which kids came 1-3rd in the A-level results for each subject, it will mainly be from grammar schools but there will be the odd sprinkling from comps too.

JoanofArgos · 14/01/2011 14:06

Of course it is a private/state debate, Cortina!

What's your evidence on private school teachers being better? That's as much a generalisation as if I were to say they're worse, and tend to be lazy so-and-so's who want a quiet life teaching pampered over-privileged arseholes, and can't actually hack it in the state system!

Which is why I am not saying that Grin

Equally it is as much a generalisation to say that the majority who dislike the whole idea of private schools take up this position out of jealousy, or because they would send their kids there if they could, as it would be were I to state that most people who send their children to private schools do so because they don't want their little darlings mixing with anyone common.

Which is why I'm not saying that either.

I will say that I think you're talking out of your arse, though.

CaptainNancy · 14/01/2011 14:06

Interesting first post OP Hmm

Goingspare · 14/01/2011 14:06

Better teachers was not my experience of private education, nor even small class sizes, but of course there are arguments to be made for and against all types of school.

This particular league table isn't evidence of anything much at all though.

Jamillalliamilli · 14/01/2011 14:08

YABU to use that table as a reason, but YANBU to be concerned if you don't have a decent state school available.

a bright, engaged child will do well wherever they're sent

If she has the ability she can apply that ability whatever the school

I'm sorry but this is precisely why sink schools are able to keep destroying kids future chances, because this myth continues to be believed by those who don't have to go to them.

It is only true in many (not all) schools if s/he can concentrate on any available work regardless of what's happening around her, to her, if s/he's one of the less lucky ones, and if there's anything worthwhile being delivered to concentrate on.

Jamillalliamilli · 14/01/2011 14:10

As a newby can I ask how you find out that it's someone's first post please?

WhyHavePets · 14/01/2011 14:12

Fair enough Joan, I am going to put my indignant head away now Grin

It is just so important to judge each school for what it really ^is not what you think it is.

For example, a school I know very well, class sizes are maximum 20 pupils (many 15), they offer a very wide range of traditional subjects as well as a healthy number of vocational options and pupils can mix and match so all will do 5 core gcses plus they can do a pretty intense business qualification (or something) and their own choice of a selection of other gcses. 50% of pupils take their maths gcse in year 9 and go onto a further maths qualification in yr 10/11 (I am not sure if this is A level or another but it is similar in level). The teachers have been with the school, for the most part, 10 years or more and are happy to be there.

Obviously this is a local "failing" school. Class sizes are small because parents will not use it however the children that do go there are achieving amasing results. This is just not reflected in tables like this as such a high number of pupils have severe SEN. Honestly this school is amasing, inspiring and teaches its pupils an awful lot more than how to spot who is wearing what for Ascot this year yet people like the Op would look at a table (which the Gov has told us to do) and discount it out of hand.

JBellingham · 14/01/2011 14:15

Pay if you can, try to get a good state school if you cannot.

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