To be shocked 90% of Down's babies are aborted?

[Strictly]

I was jut reading this sorry, yes it's from the DM!

and then did a little Googling and it turns out 91% of people told their baby has DS will have an abortion...

I'm just astounded it's so high. I'm not making a judgment on the idea people might abort, but am very shocked that it seems almost universal to abort if told the baby has Down's.

I wonder what it is about that particular condition that 91% of people feel they could not live with? The rates for abortions of Cerebral Palsy babies for example is nowhere near as high. Is it just that Down's is easy to detect so the majority of people actually get the chance to decide?

But what I'm failing to understand is why anyone thinks their experience or decisions are relevant to anyone else?

We should all have choice.

Exactly Buzz

It has to be up to YOU.

but surely it does help if people are told the facts, so that when they choose they know what they need too

you aren't telling universal facts, you're talking personal experience while at the same time condemning people who chose different.

BuzzLightBeer ffs
I have bben defending my love of my dd.
I will continue to do that,
whilst everyone is going on about choice and ds how do you think people like me and Rv feel.
ours are much more severely disabled than most people with ds, so these threads will all ways make us defensive,
there is a anti natal testing topic, where people can discuss testing and people like me hide the topic so don't have to see it.

IME - DS children and adults are wonderful. They are bright, caring and very individual. My uncle had DS. He was such a nice man. And a friends has a DS DD. She was born with a heart condion which has now been repaired.

I think sharing RL experiences and looking at all of the facts, are both very important when deciding what YOU will do.

Speaking to parents who are there or who have been there, gives a real insight into how your life, your childs life could be.

What's wrong with that Buzz?

'And a friend's DD has DS'

'condition'

'child's'

Sorry, tired today.

how does others choice change your situation?

And why assume people have no experience? I have met plenty of people with downs syndromes. Not so much in nice loving family homes, but adults in institutions because there is no family alive, able or willing to care for them, amongst other things.

I hear your real life experiences. I've had my own. Which is exactly why I know I do not want that for my family. Think what you like about my choices, but don't assume we are all either clueless or inane because we don't want what you have.

The odd thing I think Riven, is that DS is the one disability that most people have met someone with or at least seen or read something about.

Just about every article about people with Downs Syndrome you read in the media is positive, and stresses what enjoyable, rewarding lives people with Downs Syndrome can have, and what they can achieve.

And yet the termination rate of pregnancies where the foetus is known to have Downs is so high. And yes I understand that the sample is skewed for that particular statistic and why.

I did not have a problem with you sharing your experience, which I think you can see I have said. What am I saying is they aren't the only experiences. You seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with your position has no experience, wen that is obviously not true.

I agree people should be given facts, so here's the facts on my son who happens to have down syndrome.
Small, everyday, day to day chores such as dressing, feeding etc is a challenge. He won't leave the house until after dark, doesn't attend school, has a life threatening heart condition, lung problems, sight and hearing issues, mobility problems as well as seizures. He is nearly 10 and still in nappies. He is lucky to sleep for a couple of hours per night. He is very aggressive, controlling, headstrong and stubborn. He is very much jjekyl and hyde. We can do certain things like laugh too loud, have family round and we can't even use specific words for sake of a meltdown. He is physically very strong, powerful, lacks feelings and doesn't even realise he's hit you when he has.
People look at him and ask should he be out in the community when out for a hospital appointment. Proffessionals involved have also stated he will end up institutionalised. You can't barter, bribe, redirect. Incentives don't work and if it's not on his agenda it's not happeneing.
He meltsdown for a couple of hours at a time and any hospital appointment results in us being there all day due to this. Due to his extreme behaviour he has never had an ecg or echo to check his heart for the last 5 or so years. He had to have an operation to take out 12 teeth due to not brushing them, he is also at risk of endochartitis which can be fatal. He also refuses to have an eeg to check his fits.
Most of the time he is not a happy child, though there is things that make him happy in his way. I could go on and on.
Like I said it's down to peoples choice and what they and their family need and wish. I would not wish this life on my son or my worst enemy.
And in my eyes all areas of down syndrome should be highlighted when needing facts.

sorry we can't do things such as *

Not at all surprised.
I am from Ireland so one extreme to another .... But I remember being very shocked by the presumption that you will automatically do the tests and then if negative abort.

I'm pro choice but took the decision not to have the tests myself as personally I dont think its a reason to abort, however there is no doubt that being a parent to a Downs child must be very challenging.

It would be positive for Downs.

I think the fewer people there are with DS, and therefore the less people have contact with them, the more fear of dealing with DS and the more ignorance there will be. A vicious circle in other words. I grew up with children in my school and neighbourhood who had DS, spina bifida and polio and came to appreciate them as friends and people with something to offer as opposed to a set of problems to be burdened with.

There's a broad spectrum of ability with DS children and adults. Many attend school and can take undertake a good deal of self care and get on well. My cousin's DS attended school, albeit two years behind his age group and in class with his younger sister until the end of primary school. He is now pursuing vocational classes for secondary and will have some sort of job when he's finished. exSIL and BIL on the other hand have a DS child who will never attend school in any sort of mainstream classroom, has very limited verbal and self help skills and will always need a lot of care despite intensive and ongoing speech and OT.

I'm not totally sure about that math, I also grew up with friends who had Spina Bifada and would not consider that as grounds for abortion, except that several of them had significant health problems and one died before they hit 10, so again something of a spectrum, and I would want to think very seriously about the implications based on the scans. My personal experience of DS is that it can have a relatively minor impact, or lead to profound disabilities. Having children is a risk and who knows what he future holds, but I don't think it is unreasonable to choose not to continue with a pregnancy where a problem has been confirmed.

There was a new story not that long ago that revealed that since screening for down syndrome was introduced the number of babies born with down syndrome had actually INCREASED.

I would have an abortion if I found out I was due to have another disabled child. I find it hard to cope with the one I have, not mainly because he is challenging in himelf, but because of the bullshit that goes with having a disabled child. Statements, DLA, Blue Badges, lack of understanding, problems with school and then there's getting hit at, lack of sleep, lack of time, lack of money.

I couldn't do it twice and it wouldn't be fair on either child. My son has already stated that he would kill any baby I had, and he probably would. Having ANY baby would be pretty stupid, let alone one with a disability. That's probably the reason why I probably won't have another baby, as there is always a risk.

I would not judge anyone for aborting a child they felt that they couldn't cope with. However, I can also see that (and feel that) abortions due to disability do heighten those feelings that society doesn't like disability - and that's never a nice feeling for those of us who love disabled people, whether our own children or other family members. The idea that only 'perfect' people deserve to live is never a comfortable one.

My son brings more to my life than anyone I have ever met - most of it very good stuff. I will never ever regret him - but life with a disabled child is very difficult, as those of us on the SN board know - so I can't judge someone for deciding that the risk of a harder life, for them and for that baby, isn't one that they want to take. Disability isn't all joy and laughter, for the parents or for the child. Some disabled people do live tragic lives and wish they were dead. (But so do some NT people!) The heartache you feel when your disabled child is rejected and ridiculed is not something I would wish on anyone. But equally, I think it's right that people speak up for the fact that disability is not the end of life. There is joy to be found, just maybe in different places and for different reasons.

I'm firmly straddling the fence, I think. Choice = good; disability = good and bad; assuming all disability is the end of the world = bad.

There is a huge spectrum with spina bifida too and the danger of a too broad diagnosis combined with parental worry or fear is that babies who have an excellent chance of a 'normal' life will be aborted. Plenty of babies are born with deep dimples at the base of the spine who might have been aborted depending on how accurately a doctor could read scans. The girl I knew who had spina bifida never walked and died around age 12. She was much loved in the neighbourhood and was a friendly, sweet soul, taken everywhere in her buggy by her family.

I suppose it comes down to whether one is more or less committed to a belief in the right to life committed when faced with a diagnosis, and the resources available to help families can of course make a huge difference in coming to a decision. My dad grew up at a time (early 20th century in rural Ireland) when children with severe disabilities rarely survived to their first birthday and he was inclined to believe it was for the best to withhold medical treatment apart from pain relief and see how it went - so no heart surgery for newborns, etc., would have been his advice, despite his Catholic beliefs and his support of the right to life from conception. I suppose his views came from what was then harsh reality. With medical advances come choices unknown in former times.

Dayshirftdoris I think that's just because of increasing maternal age so the rates of DS babies being conceived is rising rather than the number being kept rising.

wannabe it is simply not true to say "Downs is not incompatible with life" because it can be, and often is.

Once a child with Downs has been carried to term then their prognosis is usually good and of course these are the stories we hear about - those children that function at the top end of the spectrum. That is great for them but it does not negate the fact that many babies with Downs will die before they are born.

A diagnostic test can only tell you yes or no. It can't give an indication of where on teh spectrum your baby might fall and I wouldn't take that risk. Burying one baby is quite enough for my lifetime thanks.

givemesleepandabitofhope when you say "I would not judge anyone for aborting a child they felt that they couldn't cope with. However, I can also see that (and feel that) abortions due to disability do heighten those feelings that society doesn't like disability - and that's never a nice feeling for those of us who love disabled people, whether our own children or other family members. The idea that only 'perfect' people deserve to live is never a comfortable one." you really sum it up for me.