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Original poster

To be shocked 90% of Down's babies are aborted?

575 replies

Strictly · 14/01/2011 09:20

I was jut reading this sorry, yes it's from the DM!

and then did a little Googling and it turns out 91% of people told their baby has DS will have an abortion... Shock

I'm just astounded it's so high. I'm not making a judgment on the idea people might abort, but am very shocked that it seems almost universal to abort if told the baby has Down's.

I wonder what it is about that particular condition that 91% of people feel they could not live with? The rates for abortions of Cerebral Palsy babies for example is nowhere near as high. Is it just that Down's is easy to detect so the majority of people actually get the chance to decide?

OP posts:
HumphreyCobbler · 15/01/2011 10:05

I have found some of the views personally insulting frankly. And upsetting.

TheSecondComing · 15/01/2011 10:13

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sarah293 · 15/01/2011 10:14

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sarah293 · 15/01/2011 10:15

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2shoes · 15/01/2011 10:17

so it is ok to be nasty to people who have a disabled child, but we can't say anything....
wow that makes sense

TheSecondComing · 15/01/2011 10:18

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donkeyderby · 15/01/2011 10:21

And people with disabled children are allowed to say, 'you COULD cope - I did', and our children are not tragic.

I don't see anyone judging the poster who had a termination for a pregnancy that was incompatible with life....

sarah293 · 15/01/2011 10:23

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HumphreyCobbler · 15/01/2011 10:25

people are judging those who even had screening

comments like "I would have been happy with whatever baby I got" (paraphrasing) are deeply upsetting

My baby had no chance of living outside my body.

I truly believe that those who have not been put in that situation should not judge those who have.

HumphreyCobbler · 15/01/2011 10:27

Perhaps we are not actually disagreeing with each other....

elliott · 15/01/2011 10:27

This has probably been said already, so apologies, but do remember that the 90% is of those who have had antenatal testing - there will be those who choose not to be screened because they have decided they would not terminate if the baby had Downs. There is no way of recording how many that applies to.

wannaBe · 15/01/2011 10:27

"At 18 weeks or so, it is not a "baby" who is killed. It is a fetus that is a aborted, a work-in-progress that would become a baby with DS if let to develop
for another twenty weeks or so." Perhaps. But at 25 weeks, 26 weeks, 28 weeks, 30, 32, 34, 36 and up to term it is a potentially viable baby if born early. And this is where the difference lies, because a baby that has not been diagnosed with a disability can only be aborted up to 24 weeks. But a baby that has been diagnosed with a disability can be aborted up to term. Why is this? Who decided that a disability somehow makes that "fetus" (if you will insist on being pc about it) less of a potential human being with less of a right to life by mere virtue of the fact that it has a disability?

If I became pregnant again and my baby was diagnosed with down's (or any other disability) in utero, I could decide that I didn't want a termination and proceed with my pregnancy. Then at 39 weeks I could change my mind and decide that I did want a termination and the baby would be killed in utero and then delivered. Or I could decide I did want a termination, go home to prepare, go into spontaneous labour and deliver a live, and viable baby. Given that baby was scheduled for a termination later that day, would you then think it would be ok to kill it now that it had been born? And if not, why not?

For the record I don't think such late terminations are common place at all, but I do know of a woman who was offered a termination at 37 weeks when her baby was diagnosed with ds (presumably she hadn't had testing and this was picked up on scan), it was in the media a couple of years back. So the option is definitely there should women choose it.

I have said this before on this thread but I will say it again ? I am not referring to babies who have conditions that are considered incompatible with life. No woman should have to continue a pregnancy in order to give birth to a baby that will die the instant it is born, and I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who has terminated a pregnancy on that basis.

But down's is not incompatible with life. The reason why so many babies and children with down's died in years gone by was because they were denied medical treatment on the basis of their disability. Most babies with down's, even with heart conditions, do live happy, healthy lives after initial surgery.

TheSecondComing · 15/01/2011 10:28

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BuzzLightBeer · 15/01/2011 10:39

If you are commenting because you have a disabled child, of course you have a valid opinion. But that doesn't mean you can speak for others. "you could cope,I did" doesn't help anyone. I'm not you.

and there are very good reasons that exist to allow for termination up to birth. A good friend of mine was 34 weeks pregnant when after weeks of testing was told her foetus had a very rare condition that was incompatible with life. If born at term, she might have lived for a few hours or a few days. But the main feature of the condition was that both the birth and any time that she lived would have been agonising and untreatable pain.
What would any of us done there?

Very late abortions are a miniscule amount. They are very rare, you still need two dcotors to agree, and many will not for anything less that incompatible with life dx. And women don't need legislating for this, so very few women choose this and nobody does it lightly.

sarah293 · 15/01/2011 10:51

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2shoes · 15/01/2011 10:52

i don't judge people for the sad choices they have had to make,
I do judge people who judge disabled people and say things like "tragic lives" though.
or tell people like riven that she made a choice......
having a disabled child is not always tragic(i accept that sometimes it is, if the disability is incompatible with life) it isn't a shame and disabled people have a lot to offer.

PigTail · 15/01/2011 10:54

I'm not surprised by the statistics, but they do make me feel sad. I feel sad that in this country there obviously isn't sufficient support for parents of people with Downs, and for people with Downs themselves.
I chose to have no testing (I did have scans) with DC 2 and 3, as I knew I couldn't end a pregnancy, no matter what the outcome would be. I personally feel that if I'm having a baby, I'll take whatever baby is given to me, and somehow we'll all just have to cope. Obviously most people are much more sensible than me, and would make a different decision.

PigTail · 15/01/2011 10:56

"having a disabled child is not always tragic(i accept that sometimes it is, if the disability is incompatible with life) it isn't a shame and disabled people have a lot to offer."

Smile
SantosLHalper · 15/01/2011 11:28

I was shocked when a colleague had her developmental scan and said if anything was 'wrong' she would abort. I was also pregnant and felt such love and protection towards the child, and the thought of terminating the pregnancy if she wasn't 'perfect' was abhorrent to me. My friend lost a DS child at full term and every day she wishes she hadn't.

julybutterfly · 15/01/2011 11:37

I would have given birth with pain relief for the baby prepared in advance. Then held her or him until she or he died. But thats me. To me that offers closure in a way not meeting the baby wouldn't.

Even if your baby had the top of it's skull missing and it's brain exposed? Even if you had a 2 and 4 year old at home who would see your bump growing, knowing there was a baby growing in there and then being told that actually there was no baby brother/sister coming home? Even if knowing that you were going to have to 'get on' with your life for 4 months whilst knowing your baby would die as soon as it was born?

Really??

julybutterfly · 15/01/2011 11:37

Oh and I DID get to hold my baby

SantosLHalper · 15/01/2011 11:46

July, I am sorry for your loss and it sounds like, in your case, it was the only choice for both you and your baby. I am not saying that if a baby is SO disabled or unwell that termination is wrong, but in the case of DS I do believe termination is wrong.

SantosLHalper · 15/01/2011 11:49

I beleive a difference needs made between terminating a pregnancy because the baby has no chance of life and those pregnancies terminated due to DS etc. No one is judging anyone who terminates where there is no real choice.

devientenigma · 15/01/2011 11:52

At the end of the day it's down to the person and what is best for them and there family. Everyone has the right to an opinion, though that opinion is best said tactfully or even kept to oneself.
I obviously havent read everything, I would be here all day. I just get so fed up with the issues and the debate around down syndrome in itself.....comparisons to other disabilities and other average people etc.
You just don't know what is like for the child with DS or there family until they are progressing along the way.
The perceived conception of what a baby/person who has DS can be so way of the mark in reality!!!

midori1999 · 15/01/2011 11:57

I am pro choice, although I do not like the idea of termination, for any reason, I do think it is wrong to force women to continue a pregnancy they do not want.

However, my problems are these. Women (and it has happened on this thread) say 'it is only a foetus, not a baby at 18/20/22 weeks' and people are not aborting a baby. YET, if someone has lost a baby at those same gestations then everyone acknowledges their very great loss and no-one tells them 'don't be too upset, it was only a feotus'. Why? My twins were born at 23+5. Neither of them survived, but they might have done. They were very much babies, not feotuses and the idea that anyone can abhort a baby at that gestation makes me feel extremely sick, tbh.

The second thing that really annoys/upsets me is that people often say 'if I found out my baby had Downs I would terminate' yet how much do they really know about DS? It is like they have made that decision in advance based on a few adults with DS they have sen working in Tesco or being chaperoned about by their carers and not with any valid knowledge on the matter.