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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU not to accept Alcoholism as a disease

80 replies

sum1else · 12/01/2011 16:00

My mother is a long term alcoholic. Her health is suffering as a result. We've tried everything to get her to stop but to no avail. She has very limited involvement with me and my siblings and her grandchildren as a result. It upsets us all so much but she has this deluded attitude that it's not affecting us so why are we worried. I've read various advice forums and lots of them say that alcoholism is a disease. I cannot accept this as I feel she chooses to drink and she chooses not to try and get help to stop drinking. AIBU?

OP posts:
ccpccp · 12/01/2011 18:46

YANBU.

Its an addiction and completely self imposed.

Like obesity in most cases, yet they are trying to categorise that as a disease too.

Its all just a sorry reflection of the nanny state we are building for ourselves. People must be protected from the consequences of their own actions at all costs!

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 18:53

ccpccp The are only describing over eating/binge eating disorders as a disease, of which obesity is a symptom. Fuck all to do with a nanny state

FattyArbuckel · 12/01/2011 19:02

Why on earth does the distinction matter to you?

FattyArbuckel · 12/01/2011 19:02

Are you trying to decide if she can be blamed for her alcoholism? Is that what is important to you?

Original poster
sum1else · 12/01/2011 19:22

Thank you for all your different perspectives on this, both who agree with me and those that don't. It's given me food for thought.

OP posts:
RRocks · 12/01/2011 19:22

OP<

I think the question behind your question is whether you should forgive your father. If alcoholism is a disease you think you should but don't want to; if it's not a disease it's okay to stay angry with him.

I think that you would be better to separate the questions. Even if it is a disease, you are understandably hurt, angry and sad at how much damage she has caused to the lives of people you love, including yourself. That is completely understandable and normal. And it takes a very long time to get over it. It is better for you and your family, however, that you do get over it. Hard to do, I know,if she's still in a position to cause damage. You need to minimise the impact on yourself and your own family and get some distance. Perhaps join a local meeting for families to get a different perspective and some support.

On the other question, yes alcoholism is a disease\illness,and one that damages the alcoholic's ability to reason, to choose in a rational manner. To say that it is an addiction does not mean that it is not a disease or illness. Some diseases are mild and leave no lasting effects, others are fatal or potentially so. Your parent didn't choose to have the genes that gave her an addictive personality or )possibly the environmental factors that switched on the genes. As to choosing now, her ability to reason and to recognise what she is doing is virtually nil. Alcohol is just the main drug that our society prescribes to addictive people. In different circumstances, it could have been a different drug.

If she had had slightly different genes she might have been depressive or sufferred from other identifiable mental illness. When we know more about the brain we'll perhaps know more about the causes, which might be the first step to a cure, but for now there is nothing that your or your family can do except accept the situation. It is very sad.

notevenamousie · 12/01/2011 19:42

Hi there,

I don't know if I will help, and I may very well not come back to this thread, but I'm notevenamousie and I'm an alcoholic.

I believe alcoholism is a chronic progressive illness - and I use illness deliberately rather than disease.
There are social drinkers (90% of the drinking population) and there are pathological drinkers (the other 10%). If I take that first drink, I become powerless over alcohol. Powerless to control it and to control its place in my life and the lives of others. I drank at first to blot out a painful situation that I think most of you would agree would be a horrible place to be. Something in me then took me to dependence on alcohol to - I thought - survive.

You can discuss physical addiction amongst yourselves - but I was totally under the thrall of alcohol, something in my brain changed. I am currently an alcoholic in very new recovery. It's tough. The only way for me to survive is to not pick up the first drink. Yes it's simple. But it is not easy. It is bloody hard and it's only by living just for today that I can do it. AA has saved me and many others. God knows how but it works. I'm very new on the road to sobriety.

OP - your mother does have help in AA if she wants it but she needs to be willing to 'go to any lengths' to achieve it. I hope I am willing to do that. One day at a time. If she is not willing, then I see her as still suffering. And I am so sorry that you are suffering too. She is not well - denial is definitely part of the illness that is alcoholism - but you are undoubtedly affected. This is not black and white though. There are many shades of grey.

notnowbernard · 12/01/2011 19:47

Addiction is an illness, IMO

But it is an illness that you can manage and take responsibility for, should you choose to and more importantly, want to...

Ria28 · 12/01/2011 19:55

Alcoholism is a mental illness, as are all addictions. Some drug addictions actually change the structure of the brain. And just because it's self-imposed doesn't change that - would you say a smoker with lung cancer didn't have a disease?

anothermum92 · 12/01/2011 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Kewcumber · 12/01/2011 20:35

Good luck mousie.

"Some alcohol abusers definately hide behind the word 'disease'" IME this is rare, alcoholics either are in denial about the problem when nothing on earth would lead them to admit they had an addiction or a disease and in fact that there is really no problme at all. Or they are not in denial in which case they are either trying their best to do something about it or have reached the point where they think the situation is hopeless and don't even attempt to deal with it.

I can't think of any alcohlics I know (admittedly a small sample but sadly more than a single person should know) who accept they are alcoholics but "hise" behind the excuse of it being a disease.

Sadly OP you are right in a way - it is your mothers choice (though it might not be an entirely voluntary choice) but she is an adult who is entitled to make her own choices however poor. I do understand that makes you angry though.

Rhinestone · 12/01/2011 20:38

Snorbs - very interesting, thank you.

Kewcumber · 12/01/2011 20:39

mousie - I should add that my uncle has been dry for 30+ years with the help of AA

Honeybee79 · 12/01/2011 20:47

Hello
Ahem. Deep breath. I am a recovering alcoholic. Lots of people do view it as a disease - and that is the line of AA, ie you are powerless over alcohol and require a "higher power" to restore you to sanity. This approach did not work for me. I had to believe that I DID have the power to make different decisions and change the way I behaved. But lots and lots of people don't see it like that and view it as an illness.

Drinking wasn't a choice for me - it was a compulsion. But I did make the choice to stop and although I needed help to do so I thought that telling myself that it was an illness was just a way of avoiding personal responsibility. "It wasn't me it was the drink". "I can't help, it I'm an alcoholic". I needed to believe that I COULD help it.

And I recovered.

bibbitybobbityhat · 12/01/2011 20:50

Am full of admiration for you both, honeybee and notevenamousie.

Honeybee79 · 12/01/2011 20:55

Just wanted to add that I don't disagree that Mousie's approach can be very helpful for lots of people but it just wasn't right for me. All respect to people in AA who work the programme though

Kewcumber · 12/01/2011 21:02

Honey - I know several people who didn;t agree with the AA approach but were prepared to play along and it worked for them - primarily I guess because of the support and teh desire to change.

Honeybee79 · 12/01/2011 21:11

Yes, I went to AA for a while (after a detox) and it did help in terms of support but I just didn't find the approach was right for me. But I'm still friends with lots of people in AA as it's good to have people around who understand how hard it can be to not drink when everyone else seems to be able to drink safely.

ISNT · 12/01/2011 21:11

Can I post something in that is sort of related but not

I read this article in the Independent the other day virginia ironside talks about how she has given up drinking. Her views may not chime with everyone but I thought it was a good article - it is very honest. I was in a similar situation to her and I gave up drinking with the help of MNers nearly 1.5 years ago Smile

Just in case anyone is lurking and thinking about things in their own life.

On the OP - I would agree with notevenamousie's view - it is a chronic progressive illness. I don't think that the term disease fits TBH, it's interesting to see the history of why it got applied to alcoholism in the first place. I also think that some people's brains are just built in a certain way - I think when I tasted alcohol all of my pleasure centres lit up like a christmas tree. It's just the way I am

GooseFatRoasties · 12/01/2011 21:44

ccpccp I don't know why you are making a link between addiction and the nanny state. Alcoholism was around long before that. People severely affected have drunk themselves into destitution for centuries. It's clearly a compulsion regardless of the consequences.

porcamiseria · 12/01/2011 22:04

YANBU to feel like this

Snorbs · 12/01/2011 22:13

"would you say a smoker with lung cancer didn't have a disease?"

Of course a smoker with lung cancer has a disease. He/she has got lung cancer. The question is, does a smoker have a disease even if they have no other ill effects from their smoking?

Certainly, when I was a smoker I was undoubtedly addicted but I do not see that as me being diseased. I stopped smoking before I developed a disease. It was the fear of disease that was one of the driving factors for me to stop.

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 22:19

Definition of disease - a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavourable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

See, to me, that could include alcoholism (along with eating disorders, self harm, etc), if you think of the brain as being incorrectly functioning. And the cause is either "imbalance" or "unfavourable environmental factors".

mumeeee · 12/01/2011 23:30

YABU

Snorbs · 12/01/2011 23:33

By that impressively broad definition a simple hangover would be classed as a disease. As would indigestion. And sunburn. And male-pattern baldness. The list goes on.