Completely insanse waste - Fish Fight

[NigellaPleaseComeDineWithMe]

Haven't seen any other threads on this - its appalling that so much good fish is thrown back dead because of the way the CAP works.

Please sign up here.

When we've been to France there are loads of 'odd' local species of fish that we try but in the larger supermarkets the range is much more limited. No local fishmonger here .

Have signed and alerted friends thanks to this thread. Don't give up! I think it's just not as clear cut as chickens, ie buy clearly-labelled free range.

I thought this was just an evil waste of fish, have signed and forwarded

there was a huge fishy thread a year or so ago; Sophable's dh who knows all about it came on and it culminated in Waitrose or someone offering him a free visit to one of their fish farms.

so it is not that MNers don't care about fish.... I wonder why it hasn't taken off.

I have been eating Pollock and Gurnard for years as alternatives (cheaper too). You need to start asking your supermarket counter for it the more people who ask the more likely they are to stock it.

We pretty much have Pollock every week as Friday fish supper as well as other stuff - still find the range is limited. Would like there to be a really good fishmonger nearby....

Like to cook fresh trout to and that's cheap and lovely.

I just don't understand why it's thrown away - if it's caught land it so you can measure how much is actually caught. Throwing it over for the crabs to eat is a waste.

I've started another thread in chat here - I wanted there to be a thread with a clear call to action in the title (something I read in a book once about marketing!).
will try to keep this one bumped too.

I thought that the quota system and discards were somehting which was relatively well known already? Actually SEEING it makes it more real, though.
IMO the problem is that some sort of limit is needed, and relying on consumers not to buy (eg) cod doesn't work....so the limit has to be on the producers.
I'm not sure of the detials, but I thought that the number-of-days-limit had been thrown out as an idea because it would lead to lack of investment in boats /poor safety? I really don't know the details though.

Britain has been lobbying for change in both the CFP and CAP for twenty years now, we're one of the most progressive EU countries in that respect but there are others who very much want the same changes. The problem is those countries and governments where agriculture has a much bigger role in society and where it is regarded as an integral right - such that subsidy and income are supported against all evidence and research. The polictical winds are changing but so very, very slowly. Having worked in the fields of both fisheries and agricultural commodity and market anaylsis, I can say that most (UK) researchers and policy makers are equally as despairing as yourselves. The problem is that the polictical systems are almost desgined to thwart any kind of reform, when you have to get unamnimity across 27 countries, you're always going to be in for a pasting...

so what is your view of this campaign Sparkle? Do you think it is going to do any good? Or is it not going to make any difference whether Hugh gets 100 000 signatures or 1 million because everyone from this country already wants to change it and the rest of Europe doesn't?

It will certainly add to the general weight of opinion, but the road to reform is a long one, and campaigns like this do not, cannot, change things alone. It's part of an ongoing process. What it might do is raise the heat within Defra for a few months, putting increased pressure on ministers (and hence the policy and analytical branches) to produce papers, eveidence, reports, etc., but it won't result in the reform of the CFP by this time next year, no.

As for stocks, my personal opinion is that cod stocks in particular are probably fucked anyway, so as long as any cod take at all is allowed then you should look to your own consience as to whether to eat it or not. I certainly wouldn't judge anyone who did, and we do buy cod and haddock here once a month or so.

Nothing is going to change overnight as its linked to the EU and whilst I broadly agree with it self interest just makes a mess of it all.

Surely if the fisherman fish they will catch some cod no matter what - isn't that one of the issues highlighted - you can't sleact a net that only catches one type of fish at a time.

Really need to understand at leats what is the actual total catch. One problem I agree is how do you determine whats left!

Consumers need to do more and actually ask for different types - some actually taste better and are often cheaper. Wondering sometimes why people still pay more and more for something that can relatively easily be replaced? Just a habit, poor knowledge, ???

thank you for this Sparkle, it's really interesting.
what about farmed cod? (not that we often see it).

No nothing is going to happen overnight. But this has been an issue for a long time - buying seafood has become incredibly tricky. I basically buy tinned mackerel (which is dodgy because IIRC there's only one area of the channel where mackerel can be guaranteed to be sustainably fished, and I'm sure the tinned stuff isn't from there), anchovies (which IIRC is dodgy because they're getting fished out too) non-cod fish fingers (which are presumably almost as dodgy but at least they can put any useable white fish into them) and Waitrose Allegedly Responsible Farmed Salmon bits (dodgy because farmed). No prawns any more (occasional shrimps if they are British), no tuna, etc etc.

It feels hopeless to do all this, when I love fish and would eat more of it if I could, when there is no overall wave of interest. But now, thanks to HFW and the beeb, there's a wave of interest and it's worth giving the authorities a shove.

I really support the idea of an EU wide approach to fishing. up to us to try and make it a positive one.

Hmm, response received from Nigel Farage's office (and very speedy). I won't quote it all here as it was a communication to me and not for general publication (though it was fairly general) but the person who wrote it said 'you can't have the CFP without quotas'.

Why would that be? Surely the policy can be what the EU decides it can be?

I suppose I need to read the CFP now [boggles].

OK, so a replacement CFP is planned for 2012. Not sure if consultation is still going on.

I see that the CFP as it stands now sets quotas for countries, that's how it works (hence the comment from Nigel Farage's office). In 2009, the EU Fisheries minister called for replacement of catch quotas by effort quotas (days at sea). I wonder if that had any effect?

I don't think quotas per se are the problem anyway. You can have quotas without bycatch being thrown away.

Mackereltaitai - it is so hard to get the right stuff isn't it? I had been buying Princes tuna because of what it said on the tin....

There are several alternatives to the current system, all better (although that isn't hard):

1. Allow an open market on quotas between crews - a cap and trade system. Say you end up over-quota on cod, you simply buy the right amount of quota from another crew that is under-quota. The price that you pay for the quota is determined by whatever the quota market sets.

1. Scrap quotas all together and simply limit days at sea.

1. Allow landing of over quota fish, but not allowed to sell it - it is bought for a nominal sum by an agency that then sells it on the open market and ploughs the profits back into marine conversation.

The problem with 2 and 3 is that it may still cause dumping on multi-day trips as crews may be tempted to free up hold space for species that they can turn a profit on.

that's really interesting Hogsback.

I suppose an advantage of 2 is that the less fish is around, the less will be caught, and the more is around the more will be caught, so the quantity caught will relate directly to recovery/continued decline of stocks.

A system where crews might be tempted to break the law by dumping is still nothing like as bad as a system where crews are forced to dump....

This is insane- To think that people starve to death in parts of the world, and in others they throw food away... This is so unethical and immoral, it's shocking it's legal. And the thing is, it's by no means the first time EU's food production regulations encourages waste (as in the so-called butter mountains in the 90's).

You can just imagine these smug suited politicians in Brussels making this sort of decisions over a cappuccino and a croissant, whilst having NO idea what they are talking about...

Early morning bump

More than 240,000 people have now signed up to the campaign. I guess once it gets to a million they won't be able to ignore it. Sign up here

"Half of all fish caught in the north sea are thrown back overboard dead."

Bump over 1/4 million now - wonder if our local Chinese Chippy will do the mackeral?

I watched last night and tried to sign up but the website must have been too busy.
I have always really wanted to know how to handle and cook fish properly. It may sound silly but I would like to know how to eat fish properly.
Finding it shocking, interesting, educating and inspiring.

Think lots of people are 'scared' of fish - the bones - head - guts etc. Have you watched some of the Jamie fish suppers? Also HFW did a River Cottage Prog a while back about Fish - was based in Exeter with some Students - DS1 went there and that was interesting too.

Fishmongers - even the supermarket ones should be able to do all the prep for you and make the fillets so you don't have to tackle those to begin with.

The main thing to me is not to overcook and all the supermarket stuff have labels which way overcooks fish.

I'm a fairly rubbish cook, but the great thing about fish is it really benefits from keeping things as simple as possible. The best fish dish I had last year was a barbecued trout (OK not the perfect recipe for this year!) - bought the fish, squeezed some lemon juice over it and wrapped it in foil, put it on a hot barbecue for something like 2 mins each side.