To find the Christian faith difficult to understand?

[redshinyshoes]

Firstly, I am not looking for a fight, trying to upset anyone and I can see why this may sound ignorant but I am genuinly curious. I was brought up in a very atheist household where anyone religious was treated with suspision but as an adult I have a few Christian friends and would consider myself agnostic. I want to know (but don't feel I can ask my Christian friends as don't want to offend) whether Christians believe the bible word for word or see it as more metaphorical? If it's word for word, how otherwise down to earth intelligent people can fathom a virgin birth, the Earth only being a few thousand years old and the sea parting?

Christianity isn't a one size fits all religion - some Christians will believe it's literal, some won't. Sometimes I have my doubts our vicar even believes in God.

I don't see why you can't ask your friends and I don't see why they wouldn't be happy to answer genuine questions about their beliefs.

Its just one woman's lie that got very, very out of hand...

Sorry, hopefully some believers will come along and explain it in a tick...

It depends on the person and what branch of Christianity they are part of. I think most would say they treat the Bible more as a metaphor but saying that, there is a sizable majority that do take it word for word (a television program involving Sarah Palin pops to mind where she actually said she thinks the Earth is only a few thousand years old).

Though I am an atheist and can't possibly speak for the Christians out there!

I don't believe any of what you've orginally posted, many liberal Christians don't. Neither am I homophobic, anti-abortion or even believe in heaven.

There are many, many types of Christian and some of what others believe is really nuts - like dinosaurs being put here to test us?

You can of course ask your friends questions - maybe they're not 'literal' Christians.

sorry that was supposed to be 'sizable minority

i believe it is a mix of metaphorical and word for word.
I believe in the virgin birth but i think the story of genisis and creation is metaphorical and the 7 days represent 7 periods of time.

But i would say we all have slightly different views

LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake - what do liberal Christians believe and how do they interpret the bible?

Do you think the bible has been 'altered' through the ages?

I don't know what other Christians believe at all - even dh and I believe the odd different thing.

To generalise I believe in God, that he took human form (yes, given by God to Mary but she went on to have other children), that he grew up (probably had children and lived a full human life), that he deliberately died for us. I also believe in showing the Christian ethos in community and daily life, I pray for guidance. I try to live in 'love' (that is the only sappy thing I'm going to say). I try to show compassion and be respectful of other faiths - I try to be less judgemental (doesn't always work so have to practise self-forgiveness) as I'm only human and not God.

I get insanely angry at the nutters on the right wing of Christianity. And I have to pray about that too.

That's it really.

redshinyshoes for example I'm a Catholic and when I was at school (an exceptionally long time ago), we were taught creationism, the parting of the red sea was explained as an urban myth ie the reeds soaked up the water and a few times a year it looked like the sea had parted, I can't remember them all but there were 5 or 6 examples along these lines. The Old Testament was pretty much dismissed.

To answer your question I know that books of the Bible are missed out. This is well documented.

And as for all the interpretation that right wingers do to justify their hatred - they can fuck right off as it's only their flawed interpretation.

The bible hasn't been altered over time but as it wasn't written by one person it has always had incontistancies in it as no 2 people ever see the same thing the same.
Translations may differ but the essence is the same.

That's my problem with it redshineyshoes I think it has been altered and big chunks are missing I think it's hard to know the truth when you only know part of the story.

I would class myself as a Christian as I believe Jesus was sent here as the son of god to be an answer to original sin but I find the rest really hard to know what is the right way to interput.

Yes, it has been altered (parts removed) over time. Trying to cast my mind back to my medieval history course in uni now (eons ago!) and I can't remember what the actual councils/gatherings were called but they did in fact 'edit' the Bible by removing parts that didn't jive with the way they saw it. I think there was a part near the beginning concerning Adam's first wife (Lilith) that they got rid of. Someone with a theology degree may be along shortly to clarify my ramblings!

I'm a Christian and I just want to say I am PMSL @ Tatty's post

In a nutshell I believe what is written in the bible is true - but that it was written at a time when science was a lot less advance than it is now (or Geography for that matter - don't forget they thought the earth was flat until not that long ago in history).

I believe that God did create the earth (of all the theories of evolution I've read I've never had a reasonable explanation for how it all started - "something" imo had to be there to start with to kick start it all, something can't evolve out of mothing imo ). However I also believe that it happened over the sort of times scales that geologist and the like believe it happened. For starters - God didn't create the first "day" until he'd already done bits of it. And God's time is infinite there is no beginning and no end.

"Day and night" still causes confusion now - think of the issue of wen Christmas decorations come down - 12th night is actually the night before the 6th January - as (again not that long ago) in history before people understood how many hours were in the day etc and how the earth rotates they thought days and nights started at first light/sun set etc.

Plus issues such as a "calendarar" year having changed (not to mention the fact that scientists reckon the earth used to spin round on it's axis a little quicker than it does now) - "time" has changed - a day now takes longer - so therefore so much a year!

I also believe that other things that happened int he bible also happened - and all hese scientific explanations (possible tsuanmi in the Red Sea?) were caused by God.

However - "faith" is such a personal thing - there is no way to concisely say what a Christian faith entails - as no one Christian will believe the exact same thing/interpret the bible in the same way.

Imagine it as one BIG STORY.

oh and yes - I know that books of the original bible were missed out when our curent one was done.

Whether that was done because they just didn't like those bits - or whether they decided that there had been a few people trying to pretend they knew what they were writing about I don't know.

It happens enough today - people writing and publishing books claiming to be "experts" in whatever subject it is when they're actually totally clueless and have just wanted to make a fast buck/get fame

''The bible hasn't been altered over time but as it wasn't written by one person it has always had incontistancies in it as no 2 people ever see the same thing the same.
Translations may differ but the essence is the same.''

Load of tosh - Has been changed loads of times, has major inconsistances.

Re translations making no difference lol - different versions have major differences - Most versions of the Bible are sponsored by one or more Christian denominations. Thus, translators tend to have similar belief systems. Some denominations have long standing prejudices against other religions, sexual minorities, etc. This sometimes affects the accuracy of their translation.

Many ancient Hebrew word have no modern equivalent and have been ''updated ''

As for the ''essence'' not quite sure what that is in this context and am sure that the many denominations of Christianity don't feel the same ''essence ''

And as for Modern liberal Christians - who exactly chooses which bit of the Bible to ignore or update?

Actually I think you answer your own question here

If it's word for word, how otherwise down to earth intelligent people can fathom a virgin birth, the Earth only being a few thousand years old and the sea parting?

Its not about fanthom any of those things.

Its a faith

faith
   /feɪθ/ Show Spelled[feyth] Show IPA
?noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

when you have a faith/ a belief you dont go looking for proof you believe it to be the truth.

now you may or may not agree with that but that is not what you are questioning you are questioning others right to have a faith or belief that you do not.

And I think it is a good thing you asked here and not your friends some might have taken offense.

huh Gotabook - what are you on about?

I've never been in a church which "prejudices" agains another - the closest I've found to that is some older churches insisting on sticking with the KJV that no-one understands

I've worshipped in quite a large number of different denomination chuches and have never heard any one (or group) of translations that has any major differences to another

(certainly my Good News bible has followed me to the high to the low and the in between churches and never caused me issues) - and in my CoE church we are frequently encouraged to find a bible translation that we understand/can read easiest. (though it is fun to see the one or two traditionalist KJV types in church bristling when someone stands up to do a reading and reads it from "The Message" haha)

Basically every Christian believes something slightly different.

Fundamentalist Christians believe the Bible word-for-word. Liberal Christians see it as metaphorical.

"I want to know whether Christians believe the bible word for word or see it as more metaphorical?"

i am a christian but i think to truly grasp it you need faith, being certain of what you cannot really see / prove, which is why it may not make much sense to those who are not christians.

creationism frightens me frankly, i believe there can be both a religious / metaphorical explanation about why the world started and a scientific one about how.

I believe that the religious 'right' with their hatred are no more representative of true christianity than suicide bombers are representative of true islam. in fact i think the two groups are very similar.

i view christianity as a religion of social justice with the poor and downtrodden being elevated above those with wealth or even religious status - jesus certainly made a point of this.

the bible has to be interpreted as a book of its time and it's writers were human (although god inspired) and living in their own cultures. but it's basic truths and teachings remain the same - think ten commandments, love thy neighbour as thyself. etc.

even so called atheists have a world view and clear set of beliefs. just because they are not grounded in religious faith, does not make them any less dogmatic, or indeed any more tolerant. it's just that, if it is the majority view, you may just see it as normal.

i think the gospels are a good starting point for anyone interested. read what Jesus had to say and what he was like as a person. I believe he was / is the son of God but of course it's up to everyone to make their own decision. Make up your own mind.

rant over

Having said that, as a liberal Christian I do believe the Bible contains a lot of historical records, so I don't think those are metaphors. But I think the creation story (for example) is probably a metaphor. Jesus liked to use metaphors himself quite a lot - think of the parables.

Have you read the Greek orthodox version ? I 've not read the Russian orthodox but understand there are some major I'm not talking about Anglican denominations though even they have a problem singing from the same hymn sheet.

And please dont get me started on the king James Version - so many mistakes -none of the writers had a decent understanding of Hebrew.