to think people being all judgey about others' lifestyles shouldn't count holidays as luxuries

[nutsandtangerines]

This summer, all being well, we will have a toddler and a newborn. It is becoming pretty clear we won't be able to afford to go on holiday.

I am so relieved.

WHY do people on here:

a. moan about others' (perhaps benefit-financed) holidays?
b. moan that they can't afford them themselves?

Holidays are HORRIFIC. You rush around at work in advance trying to get things stable enough that people won't spend the whole time you are away phoning you or bitching about you. Your life becomes an obsessive conveyor belt of laundry to get all the clothes you need washed and dried in time to pack. You pack. Your hands and nails flake and snag as you stuff things into too small bags at 3 in the morning. You weep. You go to bed. You get up and attempt to clean the house in the 3 and half minutes between everyone finishing breakfast and leaving the house. You accept that you are going to come back to filth. You leave. You realise you have forgotten to turn things off. You have forgotten some medication, and the charger for your camera. You drive for a day. Child(ren) whinge. You arrive. It is raining. It is cold. There is nothing to eat. Everyone is hungry. You make a horrible meal out of emergency indredients that you would never eat at home. It is rejected. There are hungry tears. You wash up in a tiny sink that splashes water all over your front. You have hardly any tops left because you simply did not have the energy to force any more into the case over all the nappies and the man clothes that are already in there. you put the child(ren) to bed. They don't sleep. You run up and down the stairs after them for a few hours. You drink as much as possible when they finally seem to have dropped off. Go to bed. DP snores. Don't sleep. Child(ren) wake up at 5.30 and don't know where they are and cry. It is raining. What on earth are you going to do for 14 hours until you are allowed to put child(ren) back in bed and start drinking again? You begin the sysiphean task of stopping the toddler breaking its neck on the completely open stairs. This will dominate your existence for the next 7 days. Everyone is hungry. There is nothing to eat.

Etc.

Eventually you are allowed to go home where you immediately succumb to a horrific virus because you are exhausted. If you have a job you can take days off sick because you have an illness policy and a childminder. This feels like the best thing that has ever happened in your whole life. If you are on maternity leave you will wish you were dead for another 7 - 10 days while normal life continues amongst the laundry generated by the holiday.

This summer it looks like we won't be able to afford to get away anywhere. Should anything change this position I will be HIDING the money in a secret account and INSISTING that we will just have to do some family day trips instead.

AIBU?

OP - I am completely with you on this. Holidays leave me a little cold - even more so with a toddler. However, I wouldn't begrudge anybody their holiday if that is what makes them tick - just as long as they don't express pure horror that I'm not that bothered.

OK maybe I should rephrase:

AIBU to refuse to go on holiday until either:

a. the children are bigger
b. DP has learnt to either drive or breastfeed?

I love my holidays, and although we can't afford to go every year, we go when we can. Luckily we've managed to afford to the last two years with dd (4.5 now) as we went during term time.

This year we have another baby due in Aug and won't be going on holiday, except for the odd weekend away I expect. I will miss it!!

My dd is very portable at this age, likes a nap after lunch when it's hot (we always go somewhere hot!), and is just easy. We always choose hotels with suitable facilities.

The best one was 2008 when dh and I got married. The 3 of us went to the Dominican and stayed in a resort right on the beach but with fab pools too. It was two weeks of bliss, sunshine, time with dd and dh - just like a Bounty ad!!! I'm going back there again, definitely.

Right this is a silly question but how do you stay in a hotel with children? I mean... if you share a room with them you have no adult time, and if they are say, 2 and 4 (looking ahead a couple of years) they can't have a room on their own, can they? Are there kind of ... family suite type things? do they cost an arm and a leg? How do you go to the restaurant when they are asleep (surely the point is that you eat and drink while they are asleep) - do you get a babysitter?
What do people normally spend on a modest-but-nice holiday abroad with two little children? (not babies - looking ahead)

I am curious about those saying they love their holidays (particularly the ones who go abroad) with young children.

How do you manage not to get stressed out by the whole thing? My DC are pretty well behaved, but its a complete PITA having to constantly watch them by the pool/on the beach or find things to do to keep them entertained, which are usually totally different things to what DH & I would like to be doing/seeing on holiday...?

Before having children, I would spend my holidays lying on a baking hot beach or by a pool, spending most of the time with my eyes shut. How can you do that, even for some of the time, with children?

Stay at home for the next couple of years and try again when your smallest is 2+. The DDs are now 3 and 7 and last year's holiday was loads of fun (and in parts, fairly relaxing).

YABU - you are obviously not doing it right (or you're doing it with a toddler and a newborn, and that's why your holiday is stressful).

There was an article on the BBC a few months back about happiness and money. The conclusions of the study that the article was reporting about was that it is better to spend money on experiences rather than material possessions as any good feelings last longer (even if something rubbish happened at the time, you'll look back on it with rose tinted glasses). For e.g. yesterday DP and I were talking about a trip we took, in very happy terms "oh it was so wonderful!" but as we were discussing it I remembered "ah yes, that's the day when DP got some sand in his eye because it was so windy and was grumpy the whole day. And that's when I got sunburnt and was annoyed with him for taking photos of me in that state". But, ultimately, the experience was a good one.

here

Oh holidays.
I'm glad it's not just me.
Dd has OCD and two years ago we had the worst 2 holidays ever, as she didn't want to go, refused to enjoy anything and we came back early.
Last year we didn't have a family holiday, but had separate breaks which was wonderful
This year we have booked a place we know and love, everyone is looking forward to it.
I have a rule that all villas have to have what we have at home in terms of equipment, bathrooms and space.

nuts - we never stay in hotels as I don't want to share a room with the DC and I don't want them in a separate room in a hotel. I also used to stay in hotels a lot pre DC for work, so I have developed a loathing of them.

I find cottages work much better. You can then either have dinner cooked for you by your DH once the DC are in bed ( think bbq'd langoustines etc ), or go out as a family and all eat together either early evening or if you can get them to nap during the day, then a bit later.

Or you can share your accommodation with friends or family, so you either have on tap extra company for dinner or on tap babysitting.

I think people confuse holidays with 'travelling' . If you want to go somewhere hot and you enjoy it thats good. But don't get deluted that you 'take dcs travelling'. A 10 month old doesn't learn 'culture' in a package holiday in Spain. It is just....holidays.

....and in terms of cost, how long is a piece of string? We had 2 weeks in August on an island in France, ferry, cottage, peage etc total about £2000 for 2 ad 2 chd.

Same time in a hotel in Spain with flights say probably about £5000.

Its the flights that are the killer, IMO.

Can anyone answer any of my 14:09 questions? I have been accused of being a misery (I probably am) and not knowing how to go on holiday (I blatantly don't). But you can help! I might only be able to afford to take the dcs on holiday once every 5 years, but if you don't answer my questions, they won't get any holidays at all, and will have Family Fun Memory Deficit (as defined by Oliver James - probably) and it will be all your fault. They will have behavioural difficulties and will inflict Bad Things on society. You can stop this now!

Oh, x-posts, lots of people already replying - thanks.

"this is a silly question but how do you stay in a hotel with children?"

well it does take a bit of extra planning, and you have to make sure the hotel's suitable (e.g. how family friendly is their dining? we stayed in one place that didn't even let kids into the restaurant after 6.30pm)... check out local activities... is there a kids club?... what do they class as a "kids menu"?... is there stuff that YOU can enjoy whilst kids are occupied by staff/DH (example, our holiday is here this year, i've been promised at least one spa sesh by DH whilst we're there for the week!)... do you have any recommendations from family and friends, etc.

in fact, i have to admit, i found the stage between 2 - 4 really the worst - old enough that they're mobile (and needing to be kept an eye on like a hawk!) but not old enough to really "enjoy" a lot of the family facilities that hotels had to offer. really, we only tried it once at that stage, i wouldn't do it again.

Oh, x-posts, lots of people already replying - thanks.

We love holidays. We have usually gone with friends (who have dc) or visited family (some with dc).

I require sunshine and at least one place of interest that I really want to visit. If we get at least one good day trip we can manage the rest of the time doing something more dc-friendly. A pool is good - dd loves it and it's easy entertainment.

My pet hate is being in a hotel room so that we are stuck there after dd goes to sleep. We have usually gone self-catering and this year we are experimenting with camping. My main worry is that we are going without other dc for dd to play with - and she is pretty high-maintenance. PP was dead right about re-evaluating your post-dc holiday expectations.

We are definitely of the kind that start planning holidays as soon as Xmas is over (or even before that....).

it doesn't stress me out to have to find things to do with my children on holiday. I sort of revert to my younger self and love spending hours splashing a round in the pool with them. I taught them to swim when they were still very young so we were not restricted to splashing in the shallows. Even now they are older and able to go off on their own or with friends we will still spend large parts of the day together in the pool or snorkling off the reef.

My one luxury is evening where the husband and kids will get ready first and go out and leave me in peace for an hour to have a bath and get ready.

I adore my holidays - nothing fab and glam about them but there is just nothing like being on the beach with your children, eating simple food and spending all your time together without distractions.

Yes it takes organisation but I agree with Frayazzled in that some of my happiest childhood memories are of being on holiday and with Portofino on the key elements of a good toddler holiday. If you approach it in a stressed out way, you will get stressed out!

Laquitar you can do both within one holiday if you choose you destination wisely. For years we have been going to Egypt were august for 2 weeks and do a mix of beach and cultural.

We didn't bother with holidays until ds1 was nearly 5, ds2 nearly 3. I loved that first holiday, we went to a cottage in North Wales and despite the weather being crap, we have a lovely time and the ds's have lovely memories of it.

IMO that is the point of holidays, having fun together and lovely memories to carry forward. We have been to some lovely places we couldn't get to in a day and can't wait to do it again this year.

We normally go to self catering cottages so clothes washing not normally a problem, you just do it! Better than bringing it all home anyway.

This year will be slightly different as we will be camping for 2 weeks but we all love camping so hopefully all will be good

Agree cant but usually the ones who call it 'travelling' they don't do this. They do 'butlins that includes airplane'

cantspel
"hours splashing around in the pool"
Sounds blissful.

Everyone who likes holidays is taking the pool for granted. And the sun. Nobody is addressing the borrowed freezing rainy UK cottage scenario. With open stairs.

I can't decide whether I find it more distressing to consider my children facing a life of dysfunction and crime, caused by Family Fun Memory Deficit Syndrome, because I am materially inadequate (we can?t afford to go abroad) or personally inadequate (incapable of inventing endless fun in the rain while physically exhauasted). Which is worse?

MooMooFarm
In answer to your question, I manage to enjoy my holidays by totally changing my expectations but still choosing somewhere that will hold my interest. My idea of hell is a package in a big resort so we generally book an apartment near a town/beach and self cater. I imagine that as DC's get older, we will end up camping but in a nice site.

I don't expect to read books or go for facials etc but I find that running around the beach with my DC is much more enjoyable anyway.

OP, your holiday(s) sounds miserable, but not everyone has horrible holidays.

We have never not gone on holiday - if we didn't go away, my OH would work 365 days a year as he works from home and has constant phonecalls and work needing to be done (and no colleagues to do it either). We've always gone self-catering, virtually every time in the UK, a few times in France, and some occasions staying with friends who live in other countries. Beach holidays can amuse children (even on cold windy beaches), but we've done tons of hill-walking with ours, even as toddlers, and visits to castles and the like. We plan out our food for the week - either eating in or out - and take it with us, so we're not hunting for a cheap supermarket as soon as we arrive, and the kids have always been excited at sleeping in a new place. They're even more excited if you travel during the night to get to a place several hours' distant.

I agree that holidays away from home are some of the best times to look back on.

I would think a holiday abroad with childen would cost £2000 approx, with travelling, accommodation etc. though we've never stayed in hotels with our kids so I don't know how to answer your question about that. I'm sure it can be done cheaper. But UK self-catering is the best option. We are away in Feb half-term in a cottage that is approx £300 for the week.