Not to think that childminders are underpaid?

[miniwedge]

Last childminder charged £4.50 per hour, she had three over eights full time, ie retainer for school hours, after and before school care, full hours in school holidays. Plus three pre schoolers at the same rate.
My average monthly term time bill was £400, holidays was ave three times that.
So as a self-employed person she was actually doing pretty well for herself.

Surely childminding is like any other profession? Its regulated and you have to pay for exams, just like say a gas fitter, you have to have the right equipment, just like a mobile mechanic say, you have to make sure you pitch for enough work to cover your financial needs, just like a mobile hairdresser?

So, am I being unreasonable to think that it is just the same as any other self employed profession in that if you have enough work you can do well, if you don't it leads to a lean time but the basic underlying wage is not the issue.

I am fully prepared for my first mums net flaming and have my new name ready if necessary. ;-)

Disclaimer; I have no issue with a childminder earning well, I am not posting to be inflammatory but I am interested to see if it's a point of view that anyone else has considered.

[montysorry]

It's not particularly high, Noodle. Our friends are always taking the 'p' out of me.

If you and your DH are earning so low and working such long hours then perhaps it's time for a re-think of careers.

[montysorry]

Flyingvisit, we were in Wilmslow. We moved down south as DH needed to be in London and it's lovely to be on the coast but I do miss it up there sometimes.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

Why should she have to rethink her career Monty? She has a fulfilling and important job, infact a precious and vital role in our society. How sad is it that she is paid so low?

They are our children FFS!

[noodle69]

As I said monty that is just wages for the area for all jobs that arent government jobs. I dont think want to change careers because if every degree educated person who does lots of training and extra hours left childcare then you would be left with substandard care unfortunately.

I want to help the children in my care as many are from very chaotic homes and are referred from SS. If everyone thought of leaving for more money then the children would be left with substandard care.

[miniwedge]

It's not three pounds per hour though is it. A childminders hourly wage is not the same as his/her hourly rate

The amount the childminder earns per hour will be based on how many mindees they have for how long and at what rate.

So 3 x minds at £3 per hour for twenty hours a week would be £9 per hour.

That's why I dont accept that all childminders are poorly paid, they set their rate per child but most have more than one child therefore their hourly earnings are not the same as their hourly rate.

[siouxsienusude]

I Registered and qualified as a child minder, when my youngest daughter was born.
The amount child minders charge realy depends on the area they live. If living in an affulent area most charge more.
My experiance was that I spent an absolute fortune on childrens toys, and going on courses, that it was impossible to make any income at all. I made absolutly no profit.
For the minisquel amount of money most child minders charge that not even being minimum wage we are expected to educate them, something the governing bodies call eyfs, early years foundation stage.
We have to educate them and prepare them for school, teach them and help them with thier homework after school ect, but the part I hated was having to write essays on each child.
In days gone by one would just play with the children, and have fun interacting with them, now its all nothing but paper work to impress ofsted.
We are expected to work for the same money with some very challenging children who require much more attention, limiting the amount of children we can take on.
If you are a child minder who is able to take on more than one child or even two, you could probably make it work.
I realy want to go back to child minding as I loved it so much, but cannot make enough, and feel that I might be better becoming a nanny instead, and working outside the home.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

Miniwedge have you read the thread?

We don't keep all the money we take, we have expenses.

We don't always fill all our places all the time.

If we did earn £9 and hour, it would be well earned.

[miniwedge]

Lol, I started the thread!

I think you've misunderstood my point.

[PigValentine]

I live in the south (Hampshire) and pay £3.50 for an hour, including lovely home cooked meals. I'm happy to pay this to a CM who I love. I don't agree at all it is like any other self employed profession - neither I nor my children are emotionally engaged with my gas fitter or plumber, and a childminder, becuase of the nature of the work, wouldn't operate their self employed business with the same sense of the commercial that a mobile hairdresser can - such as flyering about a discount on a first appointment to drum up trade!

[ohyaychristmas]

OK Mini, then you can answer my question posted above.

What hourly wage would you say is fair for a CM looking after 3 children?

£9? £10? £11? £12? At what hourly wage would you consider she is charging above her station?

No one has claimed that all childminders are poorly paid.

The OP asked whether she is BU to think that childminders are not underpaid.

She didn't specify which childminders.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

I know you started the thread. I completely don't understand your point.

[LoveRedShoes]

Montysorry, I wasn't being patronizing, just giving my own opinion that I would happily pay for holidays for a SEmp CM. If you don't like my opinions on saying that CM ratios often offer a better deal than a larger nursery setting, I can't help that.
And please don't embarrass yourself by calling me ill-informed. I have worked as a lawyer, a teacher, a CM and have owned/ operated a nursery for more years than I imagine you have had contact with one.
I am not running down nurseries - I had a highly subscribed and outstanding one. CM because of the ratios is a different kettle of fish IMO, especially for younger children. A nursery is not a home setting.

[thecaptaincrocfamily]

Charging a retainer for school age children is not the norm. I was a CM and did for pre-school children because we are limited to 6 spaces including our own children under 8. Also only 3 under 5 years and so that is not much when you consider expenses. I would be interested to know where you live because most here charge 3.80ish max. I suppose London charge more because its more expensive generally.
We went out most days and to soft play areas which do cost money, however, in view that they are looking after your most cherished posession (hopefully!) surely the cost is irrelevant if they do a good job. I pay for a nanny with a flat salary of 1,000 for 2 children without petrol and expenses and she is worth every penny despite it costing most of my income.

[poshsinglemum]

I pay £3.50 per hour which is peanuts imo. Below minimum wage. Ok- if you have more than one but mine only has 3 which is only just 10 an hour.

[chabbychic]

Sorry for hijack but loveredshoes could you have a quick look at this thread. Thanks!

[thecaptaincrocfamily]

sioux thats exactly what I found lol, obviously I cared for them too well and took them on far to many outings and did far to many activities
Soft play
Swimming
Beach
Parks all over the county
Model Village
Farms
Paints
Playdoh
Toys
Books
Drawing equipment
Glue and things to stick i.e. materials etc
Food
Petrol
Swimming aids
Car seats
Safety equipment
Buggies for extra DC
Booster seats for dining
Printer cartridges monthly for photos and colouring in pages.
Nappies
Wipes

Expenses are really high

All adds up.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

Argh printer ink! Don't get me started on expenses!!!!!

[montysorry]

Loveredshoes, I was saying that your comments showed that you were ill-informed about my situation.

Your post was replying to mine saying I'd chosen a nursery, You said, you'd chose a CM because the ratio was better and the staff were not over worked and poorly paid.

I was merely saying that your comments had no relevance to my situation as that was far from the case at the state setting we used which had a qualified teacher as my children's main carer.

Noodles, I'm not suggesting you should change careers especially as you seem to enjoy it. I was just suggesting that one of you may have to as you implied you were struggling financially. However, your financial situation is none of my business and only you can make decisions about that.

[chabbychic]

thecaptaincrocfamily don't forget the gin.

[noodle69]

Im not struggling financially. I am ok on the money I am on and pay all the mortgage/bills etc without claiming benefits.

I am just saying I think the discrepancy between teachers and early years wages is very large. I think it is a very big gap considering many early years workers are now doing degrees, EYPS and undertake a very large amount of training courses.

[miniwedge]

Pig valentine - many childminders leaflet etc in this area.

My neighbour has branded t-shirts. Lots have business cards etc which they pin on local soft play/ playgroup noticeboards etc.


Ohyay - not sure what you're getting at. The point of my op was that in my opinion a childminder is not necessarily a low paid job, it's misleading to say that someone is earning £3 an hour if they have more than one client at £3 an hour.

Re expenses - a few posters have said they claim back their expenses.
For soft play/ swimming etc surely you be charging the parent the entrance fee if they wanted you to take their child to a paid activity?

I've always paid for swimming etc.

[LoveRedShoes]

Chabbychic - can I come back to this tomorrow as I have to put DS to bed? Will have more time then.

[montysorry]

As for young children, I couldn't comment as I didn't look for any type of setting until mine were 3! At no point in the thread did it say we were only talking about babies.

Oh and as I've been teaching close to 20years and have taught from Nursery up to Y6 in that time. I also spent 3yrs mentoring NNEB students within our setting so I feel fairly ok with my own 'experience' in the matter, thank you.

[chabbychic]

Of course - thanks.

[montysorry]

Noodles, it is true that more and more EY are better qualified these days. However, traditionally, it has been a job which attracted young girls with limited academic qualifications and a lot of them. This is what has kept the wages low.

I didn't do a BEd but I know that when I went to university lots of girls joined Bed courses with poor ALevels, finished the same time I finished my PGCE and joined the same pay scale as me (which I resented at the time). Now, for a lot of the ITT courses you need ABB minimum Alevels so expectations have been raised across the board.