Not to think that childminders are underpaid?

[miniwedge]

Last childminder charged £4.50 per hour, she had three over eights full time, ie retainer for school hours, after and before school care, full hours in school holidays. Plus three pre schoolers at the same rate.
My average monthly term time bill was £400, holidays was ave three times that.
So as a self-employed person she was actually doing pretty well for herself.

Surely childminding is like any other profession? Its regulated and you have to pay for exams, just like say a gas fitter, you have to have the right equipment, just like a mobile mechanic say, you have to make sure you pitch for enough work to cover your financial needs, just like a mobile hairdresser?

So, am I being unreasonable to think that it is just the same as any other self employed profession in that if you have enough work you can do well, if you don't it leads to a lean time but the basic underlying wage is not the issue.

I am fully prepared for my first mums net flaming and have my new name ready if necessary. ;-)

Disclaimer; I have no issue with a childminder earning well, I am not posting to be inflammatory but I am interested to see if it's a point of view that anyone else has considered.

[flyingvisit]

feeling old you ought to move to cheshire

[emsyj]

Mini wedge - I used to work a a lawyer in a magic circle firm in the City with very long hours and lots of stress. I would do that again before I would look after 6 children any day of the week! I find entertaining children immensely hard work. I have an 8 month old DD and an afternoon with her and my 3 year old godson leaves me feeling like a chewed piece of string. You couldn't pay me enough to do it full time!

[SlightlyJaded]

I am amazed

I have contacted several childminders in my area and they all quote between £8 and £10 per hour per child.

£3?

Really?

How an there be such a differential?

[miniwedge]

Lol emsyj, but then again others love the job.....

I wouldn't do it but then again I my ex childminder often said she wouldn't want my job.

[miniwedge]

I think it depends from area to area slightlyjaded, I am in north Essex, £4-5 is the norm.

I guess other areas have a different rate depending on local client base, ie can the local economy support a higher or lower rate.

[noodle69]

I think looking after children isnt that difficult really. It all depends on your strengths I suppose but I work with more than that and it has its moments but overall its a pretty easy job compared to most other things I have done before.

Slightlyjaded - DO you live in London? I live in the South West and my nursery manager gets paid £6.55 an hour and it is standard for childminders to get £3 an hour. Its low wages where I am though for every kind of job really.

[sarahitaly]

I took your 400 as a rough idea of what everybody was paying, so time six, 2,400.

I have no idea of what would be left after tax in the UK, any guesses ?

And what would have to come off for overheads ?

And how much do the kids being with her overlap thus reducing the actual contact hours worked per month ? As in how many actual woman hours does she work in order to gain the income ?

[SlightlyJaded]

Yes I suppose I am in what would be considered a 'posh' bit of London but I am not posh so was never able to afford this kind of money.

[hairyfairylights]

Registration adaptations training phone line vehicle electricity gas heat and light cleaning, insurances (public liability, personal ) contingency for
sickness and hols ..... Etc etc

[flyingvisit]

My childminder claims that all off her business expenses

[cece]

I pay £7 per hour so yes I think my cm is quite well paid.

BTW she is worth every penny.

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

I think looking after children in the way that Ofsted (and parents) expects them to be looked after is quite hard.

It's not like having your own 3 children, and 3 friends kids round to play where you are pretty much free to leave them to your own devices and merely supervised. Now I know many parents would be quite happy just to have their child (especially pre-school age) simply "supervised" during the day - but many more expect the childminder to have planned "stuff" to do, every single day. Expectations that outside visits are made on a regular basis, not being plonked in front of the TV for the afternoon because you're knackered and CBA and the responsibility of having someone elses child in your care with absolutely all responsibility for their well being resting on your shoulders for longer hours.

God I couldn't do that.

[stretchmummy]

Of course they're underpaid! but would you really be prepared to fork out what they're worth without moaning?

[ENormaSnob]

I'm in the northwest and pay 3.50 per hour for my cm.

I don't think she is underpaid at all (overall) but at the same time I certainly don't begrudge her the money.

[ohyaychristmas]

OK let's max it out for her then, to see how the numbers add and subtract.

Income:

4.50 x 10 = 45 per day
x 6 children = 270 per day
x 5 days per week = 1350
x 48 weeks per year = 64,800 Gross

Tax:

Class 2 NI = 2.50 per week x 52 weeks = 130

Income Tax =
7475 personal allowance = 57,325 taxable
35,000 at 20% - 7,000
22,325 at 40% - 8,930
Total 15,930

Net income after taxes = 48,740
Expenses = +/- £1000

So £47,740 for 50 hours per week active childcare + 10 hours per week cleaning/admin/etc.

That's IF someone is running a full service of 6 children, with no assistant. Very rare, actually, considering most childminders wouldn't consider those numbers without help, or have children of their own who take up some of their places. For various reasons, childminders numbers are restricted. Many childminders do not work full-time.

But let's just say we are talking about Superminder who for some reason is able to do 50 hours a week with 6 full time children, plus cleaning and admin, with no assistance and without having a nervous breakdown.

48 grand really isn't that much when, for example, a lawyer, media type, banker, etc, etc could earn far more for fewer, less stressful hours during which they are not even responsible for the life and future wellbeing of small, very important children.

[chabbychic]

I'm a cm. I think if you have your own children it makes a lot of sense as you don't have to fork out for childcare out of your earnings. I'm earning as much now childminding as I would teaching and paying out for childcare.

You wouldn't have 6 all day - only 3 all day max during term time as the others would be over 5 and at school.

Yes you can earn a reasonable wage but there are an incredible amount of expenses.

I'm not complaining.

[chabbychic]

YOU CAN"T HAVE 6 CHILDREN ALL DAY.

[chabbychic]

And huge majority of cms would have some children of their own under 8.

[flyingvisit]

yes they can....as long as there are a good number of oevr 8's

[chabbychic]

NO they can't. They would be AT SCHOOL.

[emsyj]

I did many many more hours than that as a lawyer, but will concede it was less stressful and a lot more money

[DancingOnMyBladder]

Above sums are way out!

Can't have 6 children 10 hours a day for 48 weeks a year for a start!

[DancingOnMyBladder]

X-posts

[flyingvisit]

holiday time.....mine will have 6-8 kids

[DancingOnMyBladder]

yes thats 13 weeks a year not 48