Not to think that childminders are underpaid?

[miniwedge]

Last childminder charged £4.50 per hour, she had three over eights full time, ie retainer for school hours, after and before school care, full hours in school holidays. Plus three pre schoolers at the same rate.
My average monthly term time bill was £400, holidays was ave three times that.
So as a self-employed person she was actually doing pretty well for herself.

Surely childminding is like any other profession? Its regulated and you have to pay for exams, just like say a gas fitter, you have to have the right equipment, just like a mobile mechanic say, you have to make sure you pitch for enough work to cover your financial needs, just like a mobile hairdresser?

So, am I being unreasonable to think that it is just the same as any other self employed profession in that if you have enough work you can do well, if you don't it leads to a lean time but the basic underlying wage is not the issue.

I am fully prepared for my first mums net flaming and have my new name ready if necessary. ;-)

Disclaimer; I have no issue with a childminder earning well, I am not posting to be inflammatory but I am interested to see if it's a point of view that anyone else has considered.

[ohyaychristmas]

Totally, Little.

FWIW I charge significantly more than £4.50 p/h for under-3s. However I work well below my numbers, in a part of the country where £8 p/h for the average (i.e. satisfactory rating) childminder is the norm.

Home ed kids are cheaper because I don't have to EYFS them etc.

[LoveRedShoes]

why did I say nurses - I meant nursery staff!

[ohyaychristmas]

LoveRed, yes, yes, yes to everything you say.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

I charge £3.30 per hour for early years children. I charge £5 to do the morning school run (they can arrive from 7:30 onwards and have a healthy breaky and we walk to school). For the afternoon school run, they can stay until 4:30pm for a £5 or until 6pm (and have dinner) for £10. These hours are fairly flexible though. This includes all food, outings, everything except formula milk and nappies (although I would be very happy to support parents who wanted to use washable nappies to save on that front).

This is the least I can charge and still make a living. I am parent and have needed to pay for childcare, I know it can be hard and I won't charge unreasonbly high prices. I do however know one or two that keep putting their prices up and give us all a bad name. I am a parent first and will always try and be fair but I don't see why I should work for less than I do. I have to make my business financially viable. If childminders and nurserys didn't they would have to close, and then where would parents be? Without childcare.

I may put my prices up when I have finished my degree, but then I will have studied and worked for 3 years to provide you a better a service so I think that's fair.

[noodle69]

It doesnt seem to work like that in childcare though unfortunately littlepurpleprincess. I have got a 2:1 in Early Childhood Studies but will never be able to get more money. Same goes for childminders in my area a lot I know have degrees but still no one will pay more than £3 an hour for them, and that includes one I know with an OFSTED outstanding rating.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

I know Noodle, childminders in my area usually charge around £35 a day but a couple charge £42 a day, one has a degree, fantastic facilities (massive garden, playroom), the other is crap and I wouldn't leave her to look after a hamster. I would pay the £42 for the good one.

I won't out them up that high, but maybe somewhere in the middle.

It's catch 22 because even if parents are willing to pay for quality, they can't afford to. It's not fair on parents, childcare workers or the kids.

I'm scared it's only going to get worse. I have a feeling the new government don't really give a rats arse about childcare.

[LoveRedShoes]

noodle - how do you know that people won't pay more than 3pounds? (Apologies - on USA computer - only have $ signs!) Do they say this to you? I'm genuinely curious.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

Also LoveRedShoes, is it a case of won't pay, or can't pay?

[clmm]

I must live in the wrong area i earn £28 per day for the hours 8.30 to 6pm and thats when they pay me,they usually have some excuse why they can t pay and the worst is when they don t even mention payment and you have to ask for it.In terms of numbers i am allowed 3 full time preschool children but it is quiet here so am working for £28 Per day 3 days a week and £56 per day 2 days so £196 per week for 9 1/2 hours per day,this works out at £4 per hour way below the minimum wage.So no i don t think childminders have it good at all.

[noodle69]

I think because childminders need to stay competitive with nursery prices in the area. Here it is £30 for 10 hours care with 3 meals day which are all home cooked meals and 2 snacks. Additionally all nappies and sun cream are provided.

Childminders have to compete with that so all of the ones I know keep their prices at £3 in order to compete or they would end up with spaces.

[gloyw]

I don't think childminding IS like 'any other profession.'

They're looking after children. Basic underlying wage is an issue. If I pay someone more to fix my car and do my accounts than I do to look after my child, there's something wrong, and that something is how little we value the caring professions.

Of course, so many parents are in a Catch 22 where they want outstanding nurturing care, but can't pay highly for it because they are not well paid themselves.

[LoveRedShoes]

I see - it must be a very different area to the area I was working in. A good CM (reliable, nice setting, qualified or with a genuine interest in CM) were being fought over, and there was a plentiful supply of CMs. I know many parents who struggled to cover the fees, but still payed them on the basis they hoped it meant they were getting good childcare. It is difficult. On the other hand, I also believe that CMs are not charities - it is a job. I know I fell foul of dropping my fees to help someone out, then finding that she lived in a huge house and they took several holidays a year.

[missalien]

You should all move here to the south east to be childminders ! Nothing below five an hour here . Average seven I think. Im going to have to do a day or two nannying. To pay for my part time office job childcare costs. Short term hit though. I dont know how some childminders round here justify it though. Some charge that with no real training etc .

[LoveRedShoes]

I always argued that my CM fees were higher than the nurseries around me because the children had much more intensive, one-to-one care as they would at home. I would happily pay a CM more than a nursery. Though I know that in some financial situations that would not be viable.

[DancingOnMyBladder]

I'm in the south east (and a posh bit!) and i charge £4 an hour.

[noodle69]

Dont want to specify where I am but it is in South West. Most people are on minimum wage and average wage is about £15k a year for locals. Even that is a lot higher than what most people I know earn, regardless of their job.

I think thats why my wage doesnt seem that low to me as everyone else I know whose children attend the nursery are on a similar amount to me!

[Smartieismycat]

We pay £4 an hour, if I could afford I would pay her more. But as a freelancer/on contract I don't get paid for holidays - so paying fees during school holidays (when I can take time off) - does take some swallowing.
x

[DancingOnMyBladder]

Oh and due to the demand of shift workers and flexibility and sometimes parents only wanting to pay for hours the child attends (dispite me having to leave a full time place open to them), quite often i only earn £4 an hour and the parent is receiving one-to-one care for their child.

They still moan on pay day thought (or worse they avoid me) :(

[DancingOnMyBladder]

*though

[LoveRedShoes]

Yep, it is hard to compare because of the geographical differences. I don't know any CMs in my old area charging less than 6.50 ph, including paid holidays.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

Here we need at least a level 3 qualification, paediatric first aid, basic child protecton, food hygiene and unit one of the diploma in home-based childcare.

It is (strongly) advised that we do advanced child protection as well.

In order to accept the 15 hour free entitlement for 3 year olds we have to be accredited. Which means we have to recieve at least a good from Ofsted, then join the NCMA network, which involves attending 4 extra training sessions a year (in our spare time), plus a compulsery 18 further hours of training. I have to have been childminding for 6 months before I can apply to be on the network. Then I have a network co-ordinator come and observe and assess me several times a year. I have to stay on the network for at least six months, then I can apply to become accredted which involves further assessment and paperwork. So it's lot of extra training and ant least a year of childmnding before I can accept children using thier 15 hours free entitlement.

You could understand why some childminders don't bother, they charge a bit more to make up for the 3 year olds they loose.

[PlanetEarth]

The thing is, it's not like say getting your car serviced or your plumbing fixed because you pay for those things intermittently. You might grumble about paying £60 for an hour's work on your boiler, or whatever, but if it's once in a while you just have to do it. But if you had to pay that same plumber £60 for an hour, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, you'd get rid of him and take up plumbing yourself. If childminding cost that you wouldn't do it, you'd quit your job (and that would be both you and the CM out of work).

[LoveRedShoes]

Dancing - the same nightmare parent who spun me a huge yarn about being so hard up was also the parent who turned up twice at the start of my (arranged) holidays pretending to not know why I was in my PJs.

[Littlepurpleprincess]

I am also in the South West. I was told by another childminder that we have one of the highest proportions of 'Outstanding' childcare in the country.

Why are we the bloody cheapest? Lol.