to only want people on this thread who agree that school setting research topics for a 6 year old

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is lazy teaching

as a teacher you do not set homework for children that they cannot acheive without parents doing it for them - you set homework for them that they can acheive with parental support

it is two different things

and this time I am going to say something

"How do you cope working in it?"

_

I've treated it as a mega challenge. And to be fair the lack of resources, the lack of people who will collaborate, or bounce ideas around with you (other than "you are wasting your time by working up a sweat, cos they are all little fuckers who'll never learn anything anyway") has created the backdrop for some of my more creative, inventive ideas that I've gone on to refine and reuse for years. I credit the "scorched earth" working environment with forcing me to think outside the box in order to achieve what I want to achieve, despite the lack of resources or back up. Abundance doesn't always have quite the same stimulating effect on me

Necessity being the mother of invention and all that jazz.

But we are moving in the next 12 months, still in Italy, but to a bit that doesn't try and freeze the knickers off me every winter. I won't be seeking or accepting ANY "in school" contracts there. I'm going to take refuge in corporate clients, for a while at least.

I don't want to witness up close and personal such a profound lack of respect for children's education and wellbeing anymore.

If I thought there was a change on the horizon I'd push through.

But there isn't.

So far I've only had to deal with the fall out of reporting colleagues for verbal violence ("I will shove this pencil down your throat..sideways", "If i hear that again, I'll punch you in the face"). That debacle led me to become more aware of the recklessly high number of serious issues that go undealt with beyond my immediate area.

I don't want to find myself in a situation like the one where a school TA\caretaker\cleaner was found guilty of extortion (via threatening violence to children), got a suspended sentence, kept her job in a primary school, the one nod to her transgressions was her being "shuffled" to another local school, where she went on to strip the trousers and underwear off a class of boys, before humiliating the half naked "culprit" in front of the whole class, because one of them got the trots and made a bit of a mess in the bathroom. With the entire teaching body watching and not raising a finger to intervene.

Or the school where the teacher instructed her class of six year old's to strip naked and beat one child (because he was naughty) in gang formation.

Or the teacher who cut a 7 year old's tongue with scissors cos he was talking too much.

In the first case the bidella got shuffled back to her original school, in the second a rare school director with balls extracted a resignation, although I have no doubt that she'll end up getting her job back due unfair dismissal via coercion. The last did get fired, I nearly fell off my chair with shock at that unusual outcome.

Those are 3 examples of many similar situations. I've lost count of the number of pre school\elementary school kids who have been taped to chairs. It has to around 10-15 cases that I know of personally in my area in the last five years alone. Since it is considered a minor event it doesn't often get reported in the press, so I'd imagine you'd find that all over the country similar occurrences take place.

I'll end up in the dock myself if I get to witness something similar first hand. Equivalent events are NOT as rare as hens teeth. There is a constant risk that I'll end being a in school when actual physical harm takes place while I'm there and I'm not capable of passively standing, watching, taking notes and making a report that won't be acted upon after the event.

It is hard to describe how angry I am that in 2011, with one of the lowest teacher:students ratios, one of the highest levels of investment per child, the result is a generally poor education that lets significant numbers of children fall by the wayside as early as the first years of primary, fails children with SEN as a rule and swathes of children are being exposed to physical, emotional and verbal abuse. And I do not use that word lightly. I use it sparingly lest it should lose its power.

Which sort of explains why, despite disagreeing with her on this issue (and in part it is necessary to recognize that the gap between the demands of the NC and the lack of realistic resources, inc manpower are in large part responsible for the issue being on the table at all), I'd happily kidnap Stoat, seduce her with top notch pasta and have her be my kid's teacher in a heartbeat.

She obviously puts a great deal of thought and skill into her teaching, resulting in a child centered bent, great micro-staging, aimed at sparking interest and setting up the children to succeed in terms of comprehension and retention.

I'm not saying I've NEVER met a teacher like that over here, I do have a couple of handfuls of colleagues that I adore and think the world of, but they are few and far between.

And that is not enough to convince me to carry on banging my head against a brick wall.

I sarahitaly's posts are a good corrective to some of the "Our educational system is completely shit and everyone else is better" talk that goes on on MN and elsewhere.

Our educational system has some large flaws, it is not as good as some (though that's partly due to social factors outside the educators' remit), but it is actually pretty good in many ways, and full of people trying to do their best and aiming for constant improvement.

"it is not as good as some"

I think it is also worth bearing in mind that stellar results can also be the product of a cultural acceptance of methodologies and philosophies that would not translate well to the UK mindset.

I worked in Thailand before i came here, they have a similar outlook in terms of how education should occur as many other countries in the region, some of which do exceedingly well on the international league tables.

but how many of us could cope with our child being dragged, half asleep from crammer to crammer ?

And I don't know about you, but watching children line up to be beaten with a cane for minor infractions was so far out of my comfort zone that I was found weeping in a toilet and handed in my notice before there was a Very Serious Falling Out in the staffroom.

Plus 60 kids in a classroom is a lot, even if they are rather cowed and tend to behave quite well. Not sure the 30 at the back could even see me let alone hear me.

I'll take less than amazing results compared to other countries in exchange for a child centered education where the basic ethos is "we shouldn't hurt them, it kind of helps to take their ages and stages into account and childhood probably shouldn't resemble the educational version of children working their fingers to the bone in sweat shops".

I was recently the interpreter for a cross cultural exchange involving a group of high school kids from Finland. Even there, while their results are admirable, I felt they were based less on the effectiveness of the methodologies employed and more on a cultural reality that many other countries do not share.

Would I have liked my students to have behaved as well in terms of team effort to set up the equipment and stage ? Hell yes.

Would I have liked my students to do so well academically ? Hell yes.

Am I willing to sacrifice, or ride roughshod over what makes them Italian in order to achieve that ? God no.

Even if it were possible to gain the same results, which I don't believe it is.

And anyway the Finnish kids (and a couple of their teachers) had "issues" of their own, which made me feel quite proud of my lot in comparison. Except the ones wandering around with their tongues hanging out boggle eyed at an invasion of a comely blonds. For whom I considered the use of leads and muzzles. But only in my head. For a split second.

At least it gave them a sudden, intrinsic motivation to use the English they had and some had a new found enthusiasm for the subject when back at the chalk face. Mainly the ones who'd scored a phone number . ( =

So all in all, worth the close calls I had with about 7 heart attacks in the space of single day.

YANBU.MY eldest at 7 had to do a topic jointly (purely out of school) with 2 people who lived 5 miles away from us and I didn't even know the parents of one of them!

if a parent does not help with a set piece of homework in my child's school, and/or the child is not able to complete it themselves for whatever reason, my child is sent home with letters and I am given the riot act for not complying with the school homework agreement. I cannot reiterate enough how much I despise my school's homework agreement. They dictate to me how I should be behaving and spending my time with my child and imply that I am not interested in my childs education if i do not comply. I find this patronising and it also makes me feel guilty as though I'm some kind of bad parent. The child is also made to feel isolated from rest of class that has done their homework successfully. It's just not on in the primary years.

We have given up. I read the slip properly and ds has to research and write one or two paragraphs about a famous person.

It was given on Friday and has to be in tomorrow. I work until 8.30pm on Fridays and all day Saturday so we only have today.

I looked to see if we had any books, we havelots about nature, science and the natural world but none about history or famous people.

We went to see a juke box style musical before Christmas so I gave him the programme and suggested he write about one of the band members. He read through the biog info then chose two paragraphs at random to copy but he didn't understand the indormation he was copying and was unable to pick out bits to put into his own words. It would have had no educational value other than handwriting practice.

So I have written a note in to school suggesting they send him home with an age appropriate book on a famous person and we willcomplete it over the next week.

Also I have just seen a FB posting from another parent complaining that the homework is not age appropriate.

The dc don't even seem to understand what a famous person is, they have been given a random list of examples most of whom the children have never heard of.

I teach primary aged children and have always felt that the children work a full day at school and are too young for extensive homework.

I don't think it's too much to ask for parents to read with their child once a week when I send home a reading book. Yes I do teach reading skills in class but can't read individually with 30 children and teach other subjects.

I send home maths or literacy activities for some children who are struggling in specific areas. I always discuss these with parents before sending home to make sure they are going to be useful.

Every year there is a group of parents who want homework and ask why we don't send home more. So I send home maths/literacy/topic work occasionally. This is always based on areas we have been focussing on in school and is differentiated according to ability.

I have sent project work home a few times (once or twice a year). It is always related to our current topic in school. I send home a letter at the beginning of our topic. I explain 1 or 2 activities that are compulsory and then give a list of possible optional activities. Often parents at our school want to explore our curriculum topics with children at home but don't know where to start. I find that providing a list gives them a chance to find at least 1 thing they would like to do.

(And yes, some parents do like to do ALL the items on list and think of more! Those would be the same parents who like weekly spelling lists and want me to provide weekly levelled assessments of their 7 yr old's progress in all subjects.)

I include a list of helpful websites and ask that if children find any other useful sites to let me know so I can share with class.

We have a selection of books in class related to the topic which the children can borrow (they bring them into class during day and borrow at nights or w/e).

The projects run over 6 weeks. The children bring their project books into school once a week so we can add in work we have completed in class. The children enjoyed sharing their ideas and showing off their books.

We had a weekly "project" session in class where the children could work on their own ideas. In this time I was able to ensure that children who didn't have access to the Internet at home could use it in class.

All the children's work was valued and they were proud. I also had many parents coming to tell me how much they had enjoyed the project.

You have internet access though elphabadefiesgravity!!!

Yes I do, on a work computer that the children are not allowed to use. The children have laptops from their grandparents but they have no printer. I work with children and although everything is password protected our CP officer has dictated that children and our computers should not mix.

Anyway dh has sat with ds and virtually done it for him. He is going to take ds's laptop and temporarily connect it to the printer (I don't know how to do that).

And because of this we did not have time for the family game of monopoly we promised dd as we then had to cook sunday dinner and now it is bathtime.

I read a good bit of this thread, but not all.

I am a Speech and Language Therapist. When I worked in a primary language unit, we did quite a bit of mind-mapping type pre-teaching of curriculum topic vocabulary.

As part of this, I sometimes needed to search for pictures of key vocabulary online (as visuals were very important to these students).

I cannot tell you how many times searching for Tudor or Victorian clothing led to inappropriate images of lingerie popping up. I can remember the hot flush of shame I felt when one student managed to click on one faster than I could click it off and turned to me saying: "but why is she showing off her bum?".

I don't believe internet research is that appropriate for most young children. It is time consuming and inefficient and probably not that great for their eyes. It is quite "bitty", too. It is very difficult not to direct it as an adult due to the sprawling, frequently adult nature of internet sites. As adults, we have powers of categorisation and deduction that enable us to sift through internet-based material. Young children do not. I believe that they need to learn how to seek and copy information from more concrete sources e.g. non-fiction books, encyclopaedias, dictionaries etc before they can adequately filter the output of a mass, undifferentiated system such as the internet. It reminds me of that old chestnut about abstract artists needing to master formal art forms in order to create their own abstract vision of the world.

Someone mentioned earlier that they couldn't understand why a school didn't send a student home with an age-appropriate non-fiction book on a topic instead of asking them to conduct computer-based research. Absolutely!

100% agree with posters wrt the inappropriateness of expecting children to google subjects themselves and also the idea that a parent should have to sift through the 822,543 hits on Egypt for instance to find something a child could use to write a paragraph on.

2manynachos Once a week reading with parents? It's a standard 5-10 minutes per evening here although 3 is acceptable.

Although, it's made a lot easier if you type in the key word + "primary school". Then you'll find a list of primary schools who have done the topic before comes up and you can be pretty sure that the material will be relevant, age / stage appropriate and suitable. My DDs teacher told us that tip - and hey presto, there really is no 'hours' spent sifting through inappropriate material! It really is that easy!

Surprised that primary school teachers / workers didn't know that tip - thought it was common sensical.

Personally don't think children under 10 should have any homework except a few spellings and a bit of reading 2-3times a week maybe brush up on times tables six hours a day is enough formal learning for a young child

When I was at primary homework was unheard of, but I still left primary well educated, went on to university, so did lots in my class. I read extra stuff at home cause I wanted to, could do quadratic equations and read well, I just think that teachers generally treat parents like kids they are patronising and want stupid contracts this is just to cover backs so you can't sue them!

well here is the contract you educate my child, the back up you should get as a teacher is that parent encourages child to respect you and does not undermine discipline i realise my child is not always an angel

my job is to teach DD the stuff she does not learn in school manners, faith, cooking, sports maybe care of pets culture etc.

my friends kid is pretty bright and finshes all school work early but not allowed to do her homework so she has to play lego draw pointless pictures or do extra simple sums which bore her rigid but no she can not possibly read up on her homework in school time but perfectly ok to play waste school time on boring pointless activities while teacher does other stuff... thankful she is a good girl but I think some kids would get very disruptive if fobbed off on boring stuff

YANBU - my son is in Yr 2 & 9-3.30 Mon-Fri is quite enough education for him.

Totally agree the Internet should not be used for research by unsupervised littluns. I'm more than happy to do any required googling in the meantime.

Before my dad got online we had a CD ROM called Encarta, boy did i love it. Also for those with iPhones there are loads of apps that are like mini reference books.

I've started to build up a collection of fact books for DD that she can browse, I just love them.

agree with hahnj - fact books are the best Always had loads at home from time child was v young, eg animal encyclopedias, books on planets, history whatever..

I really think at this age, reading with parents =- child or parent reading - is the best homework and prob only homework necessary. and I'd think that it doesn't even matter so much what you read to child, just that you do read to child..

You know what I don't understand is the parents who ask/bully the teacher for extra homework at primary level.

It makes no sense - if the parent child is that desperate for extra Stuff To Do, why not just choose something themselves? Get a few cheap workbooks or write about something of their choosing? I used to look up whatever took my fancy in books or online. Even my schoolwork-hating DSDs have done that before as we made it into a game. Decent teachers would be happy to have a look at it, even if just to say "ooh that's nice".

It makes me a teeny bit if a parent is bugging the teacher to get the child to do More Stuff - kind of makes me think they need the teacher's authority to get their child to do it.

Or am I overanalysing it? Any thoughts/experiences on this?

"You know what I don't understand is the parents who ask/bully the teacher for extra homework at primary level."

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My experiences may not reflect those of a primary school teacher in the UK, but what I've found is....

Parents who have noted that their child needs additional support, or would enjoy extra activities in a subject, don't necessarily know how, or what to do.

Some just need some ideas, or principles to bounce off, before getting into the swing of things by themselves.

Some don't have any confidence in their ability to deliver a learning experience unless it is designed and set by a professional.

Others don't have the time to produce their own activities and want "ready made" solutions, but find the huge range of resources on the market bewildering, making selection impossible for them. They are more comfortable with their child's own teacher taking over the selection process and homework can seem like an obvious route.

Some of them are heavily influenced by the distant memories of their own education and find it difficult to see the value of lessons in the classroom that don't fit their perception of "proper learning". They often see insisting on extensive "worksheet" or "exercise" type homework as a way of counteracting a lack of more traditional methods during the school day. Sometimes it's also a mode of registering their protest (by the backdoor) at the teacher's reliance on "daft modern ideas".

A tiny handful are not making their child's needs the priority and instead are looking to build up their own self\public image as a "good parent", with their child's education acting as a context by which they can do that in a highly visible manner. In order to achieve that they need their efforts to be noticed and constant contact with the teacher asking for additional input does tend to get them noticed.

Very true, Sarahitaly, and it's true for teachers too imo. I think there are some out there who see having a wall plastered with material the children have produced piece-work style and the handing out of complex homework assignments as a means of keeping them and their job constantly in the spotlight and looking good.

The most successful students I have come across are those who spend a lot of time reading plain old books on any subject of their choice outside of school. No bells or whistles required.

"I think there are some out there who see having a wall plastered with material the children have produced piece-work style and the handing out of complex homework assignments as a means of keeping them and their job constantly in the spotlight and looking good."

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I think that is in part thanks to a lack of comprehension as to how you can spot\be a creative teacher. Creative in the context of teaching doesn't necessarily mean a final product that looks "creative".

If at the start of the planning process too much importance is placed on a "creative looking" product then the risk is that skills acquisition\learning\exploring\sparking interest can limp in a poor second (lip service only), as the wow factor of the finished product becomes the absolute priority in terms of time, energy, resources and consideration.

That might not make any sense.

Have taken cough medicine.

Feel a bit odd.

You will be pleased to know that I talked about this thread to our HT today.

We have decided that although we like sending research h/w from time to time, we will make sure that teachers provide 2 or 3 safe web-sites for parents to use with their children. They can, of course use books from home or go to the library if they want.

I assume that much of the research homework you are all talking about is more of a 'project' when the child is expected to write several pages.

I would like to stress that recent research h/w on monkeys provided a table with 3 columns - what they eat, where they live and what they like playing with - and children had to find 3-5 words for each category.

Just wanted to show that I do, in fact, listen, and that I am a bit proactive.

"Just wanted to show that I do, in fact, listen, and that I am a bit proactive"