to think if you want a new qualification get on benefits!!

[TheFeministParent]

WEll not really but I have just learned a cousin of mine, after leaving her partner and taking her three dcs to live in one of the roughest estates in England (another story), has just started a degree course. As a single parent of three living in a HA house she's allowed govt help to get educated...which is great, we should support people who want to educate themselves out of poverty. However I would love to do a bit of post grad study whilst my dcs are at home (in evenings) but I can't afford it, literally have nowhere to make savings...it will make me more employable following a HUGE break to have dcs.

So why can't I get help? I have as little disposable income as my cousin.

Oh, meant to add that you can find more info on PCDLs and the number you call to get an application form online at Directgov.

Jenai funding has not been pulled for OU under grads. Im studying with them myself.

PMSL BrandyButterfly - that's a bloody fantastic typo

Surely paying for people on benefits to get better qualified for jobs can only be a good thing?

I have become sidetracked so my response is actually nothing to do with the original question. But OP, YABU. 'Feminist'? She left what sounds like a materially comfortable life and now loves in one of the roughest places, you're right, sounds like she had loads of options, selfish cow. Unless he DP fought for custody of children he cannot object to them being moved away. Why didn't he try to keep them with him?

You are probably not informed on every aspect of their relationship so do not know why things have gone the way they have. If she is studying for an undergraduate degree, and you already have one, I don't see the problem. (Well, whadya know, I did answer the original question)

I agree that people should get support to earn themselves out of poverty but IMHO if it's available for some, it should be available for all. I gave up work so don't have a substantial income, but because i don't claim benefit I'm not entitled to any help (financial or otherwise) whilst my single parent friend, who's never held a job, gets her rent paid and help with starting a business, even though she's unlikely to ever make a living out of it. I don't begrudge her, but I've paid taxes for 20-odd years and make my money doing odd jobs. I'm not poor really - it's just so unfair that some people seem to be rewarded for making bad choices.

Jeez I can't believe how judgemental you're being OP about this woman's decision to leave her partner. Unless you've been a fly on their wall for a few years?

That aside, you've already got a degree. If you cant or wont put that to good use in your working life, why should you get help to get another one? I mean where would that end exactly?

Thanks Baroquin! I'd like to think my views are just common sense but I'm sure you'd disagree

Anyway, OP. When you did your degree, the govt already paid for you then. They are now helping your cousin. I think that's perfectly fair.

What you are asking for is the state to fund more education for you but they wouldn't do that for your cousin either. So its still fair.

What's unfair is the latest changes to university funding but that's a whole different topic.

OP, if you go to the Student Parents forum on here there should be people who've been in your situation and can advise about ways you might be able to make it work. Assuming you're serious about wanting to do postgrad study, not just wanting to rant about your cousin getting free stuff that you don't!

- I do disagree - most of the time

biryani, what do you mean by some people get rewarded for making bad choices? I chose to be a single parent and got a council house and lived of benefits for a while (and I suppose I could have done a degree too if I'd thought about it), but the other choice would have been to stay in a very violent marriage. Plus you say your friend has had help with setting up her own business, would you rather she sat on her arse all day and did nothing?

biryani, I don't think it's that people get rewarded for making bad choices, it's just that some people making bad choices avail themsleves of benefits intended for others.

It's a side effect of living in a civilised society with a welfare system, and one that we have to accept tbh.

Reality - you might not have done what the OP says her cousin has, but seriously there really are people who make utterly bizarre decisions. Maybe she's having some kind of breakdown or early midlife crisis. But I'm prepared to accept that she's an arse. I've known a few.

Just to clear up the myths - if on a low income, doing your first degree qualification at a bricks and mortar uni as a mature student (over 21) it's a grant rather than a loan. I don't know why it's a grant. I would have been happy with a loan if it was subject to the same rules as the other student loans (ie pay back when reach a certain amount) but maybe they thought it would put people off? Either way I'm very grateful and hoping to fuck that I can keep studying when the fees rise, as I'm on a six year course.

If it's a part time course (ie still available for work) and you are a single parent you keep your benefits. But there's no living/maintenence grant, other than a small fund which will vary by institution which can be applied for for help with childcare, travel, books etc. So far on my course I've had to pay for childcare and £250 for a bus pass, and I've spent a fair amount on books even though I use the library as much as possible and amazon/second hand sales where not. I'm lucky in that I only have one child so childcare costs are low, and I've found a very reasonable childminder. I'm still waiting for my application for the childcare help fund, so I'm paying £50+ a week which I can barely afford. I'm no better off than I was - in fact I'm much worse off if you look strictly at the finances. (Better off in terms of I'm working towards the degree which is valuable)

I've also found it very difficult to find out exactly what you are supposed to be able to get help with and what not. When I told the jobcentre I was studying they exclaimed in horror and said Oh but you're now not entitled to Income Support. I phoned them up and that isn't even right - but my income support might go down if I get help with childcare. (Which is just wonderful, more stress while I wait and see, because my current outgoings are not sustainable and I don't know where I could realistically cut down any more) I had lots of panic episodes like this when I was just looking at it - it was only because I was determined that we'd move to a hovel and eat nothing but lentils if we had to, that I kept pushing on to apply. Luckily it seems that most things are covered, but I think a lot of people would be put off.

I don't know why I bothered typing this out though. I think you just wanted a rant, OP, or you'd be looking into ways to make your own plans work rather than being bitter about other people.

Thanks for posting BB - I think it is quite complex to work out how all the different benefits work and that in itself probably puts people off Higher Education.

It does seem to me to be a very good idea for women to combine young children and studying. I will discuss with DD, when she is older, how best to time both when to do a degree and when to have children.

Agree with op. It's very unfair. I hope you get to do your postgrad.

YANBU. If you are a SAHM earning no money of your own, and have no skills/qualifications (or outdated ones) but your DH has a job and pays tax on both your behalves, then you are persona non-grata, and are not entitled to educate yourself in order to work, unless your DH pays for it for you.

If you are already costing the state in benefits, they'll happily pay for your education/training on top, and pay your child-care while you are at it.

Fellatio that is not true - I looked into how my financial support eligibility (for the OU) would change when I got back with exH at the start of last year . At the time he was looking for work - I found that unless he got a really well paid job I would still get at least some (all of it up to certain level of income) of my fee grant paid for me to be able to continue with my degree.

And if I'd got a degree already I wouldn't be getting any help now with my current degree - despite being on benefits.

Just wondering how you claim to have the same amount of disposable income as your cousin

TheFeministParent Tue 28-Dec-10 11:57:15
DS1(8) is wearing Joules Jeans and Gap tops...with Uggs and a cool scarf(he's done a little modelling and loves clothes) (Not yucky try hard trendy though!)
DS2(7) is wearing converse all stars, Gap jeans, red checky shirt.

DD1(4) has a red patterned Joules dress with grey leggings and grey polo neck and Australian original Uggs..

DS3 (2) Boden green sweatshirt hoodie, Gap jeans and Uggs

State benefits don't cover that sort of expense.

and surely it's a bit of a case of a speculate to accumulate?

Someone with a degree has a higher earning potential than someone with out (in general terms at least). You can often climb the career ladder only so far without a degree behind you before you hit a brick wall (happened to my dad - the one thing stopping him progressing any further was the lack of degree) he got quite high in profession but could get no further.

If someone comes off benefits into work with no degree their earnings potential will be more limited - and they will be more likely to need to rely on state top-ups for life.

If someone comes off benefits with a degree under their belt- yes they may start off on a low wage still relying on state top-ups - but over time they are more likely to increase their wage to need less support and pay more tax.

The benefits system is apparently very complex.

I saw a Cameron headline the other day saying "Entrepreneurs can stay on benefits"

Is this a stunt or bona fide.?

Governments use publicity stunts...and SOAPS
do too. Are the press running this country?

cheers "Gabby" on fire. (Not literally)