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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think billboard adverts threatening parents about removing their children for a holiday in term time are a bit well, pathetic.

509 replies

BurningBuntingFlipFlop · 06/01/2011 01:17

Haven't the government got bigger concerns?

Sure a couple of weeks of a child experiencing a different culture once a year during term time isn't that bad?

My children aren't old enough but if they were i probably wouldn't pull them out in term time personally. But i'm shocked that this is apparently a major concern in the education sector right now? What about the parents who just don't give a shit if their kids ever go to school? Or the cuts that are happening?

I can't find a link, they're in Manchester anyway.

OP posts:
catsmother · 06/01/2011 14:41

Here we go again with the "I'm alright Jack" attitude so often seen on MN lately.

"If you can't afford a holiday outside of term time, then tough! Holidays are not a god given right."

No .... they're not a right but most people would agree that if you can possibly afford a break of some sort with your family then they're not only "nice to have" but, in some situations, a much needed and valuable opportunity to actually spend some time with all your family - that is your partner and your children (I rarely do this, due to working patterns, and I'm sure I'm not the only one). Additionally, there are many people in stressful jobs, maybe manual work, maybe long hours,who do genuinely need - shock horror - a rest every now and again but who literally and genuinely can't afford school holiday prices.

Have you considered that many people do scrimp and save, and would still only be able to afford to go away - for example, a cheap caravan holiday in Wales every other year - in term time.

But according to many of you, people in that category - i.e. very hard up - who, by definition, probably have a pretty crap time of it generally, with a poor standard of living and little or no social life - should pull their socks up, get some "responsibility" and deny themselves and their children the occasional holiday opportunity because otherwise they are being "totally irresponsible" and teaching their children the wrong attitude towards education.

Not one poster here who'd consider term time holiday has expressed either ingratitude for the UK's free education, nor stated that they feel education is unimportant. Quite the contrary, and if I could afford to book any sort of holiday at any time at all I'd do all I could to ensure my daughter caught up where necessary and obviously not book anything at a time when it would impact upon exams. Personally, all this term time holiday talk is a moot point for me but I do wonder how my child would feel in years to come, if, for example, I adopted the holier than thou attitude seemingly expected from "the less well off" by the "better off" and never took a holiday at all because I could only afford term time (and wouldn't be so "irresponsible") ? I wonder how she'd feel when she asked why we'd never had a family holiday and was told it was because I considered her education more important .... I know she'd argue that the occasional week missed would have been outweighed by being able to spend some time with both mum and dad.

It strikes me that the people flinging accusations of irresponsibility about are those who actually can manage to get away in the school holidays, and this is often accompanied by claims of "making sacrifices", "saving up" and so on (in the vein of "well, if we can do it, so can other people"). Well, guess what .... for some people, however many sacrifices they make, they will never be able to afford even the most modest break in the school holidays - it's all they can manage to scrape a modest break in term time, and good luck to them. Until you have actually lived in a situation where you and your partner are like ships who pass in the night and where your children rarely see you together, you have no idea how important the idea of genuine quality time together becomes.

For me .... that rare quality time would override education - for all of 5 days ... it hardly condemns my child to a lifetime of illiteracy and flunked exams. Life is about the whole picture and having fun and relaxing together as a family is extremely important too. I don't think I'm expressing this very well, but whenever the issue of term time holidays arises, it always seems to be accompanied by a very unpleasant undertone regarding the expectations of the "less well off" - almost as if "how very dare they" even have the audacity to think of doing something so many other people take for granted. I accept of course that there are families who take the piss - making up stories about sore throats so kids can have the day off for Granny's birthday, or worse, so their parents don't have to get out of bed to take their kids to school but for many families term time holidays are the only way they could ever afford (a very modest) break.

Mowiol · 06/01/2011 14:42

vintageteacups - we have 13 weeks total here in Scotland (not counting INSET days when staff are in school). Is that more than England?
Pupils are at school for 190 days.

gibbergabber · 06/01/2011 14:42

Any head who begrudges a holiday in those circumstances vintageteacups is clearly taking things too far.

If you have exceptional circumstances then I think it's fine. If you take two weeks every year just because you think you're entitled then it's a different thing altogether.

Doesn't bother me though - in fact it keeps me in work.

macmama · 06/01/2011 14:45

At my DD's primary school (she is in Y1) you are allowed 2 weeks authorised term time holiday a year.

Depending on age, exams etc head teacher is very happy to authorise the right kind of holiday (eg, special time with overseas family). She is very supportive as she believes children do learn a lot from such experiences which I also agree with (not least because I come from the other side of the world myself).

Children must provide a holiday diary for the time they are away. I took DD out during reception for a week to spend with my mum who was visiting - we did an amazing journal with photos, captions etc of the things she did with her grandma, it was a lot of work. I had one extra day authorised after Xmas break as DD's cousins are visiting from home and it was nice for them to spend some more time together. I might also be asking for an extra week later this year so that we can meet Australian family half way (holidays don't match up otherwise).

Mowiol · 06/01/2011 14:47

Should also point out, I work 4 days so not in work today (as another poster said) just in case anyone thinks I'm skiving!!

blindassasin · 06/01/2011 14:49

I'm not a teacher but I can imagine how annying it is catching a child up that has missed 2 weeks school to go on holiday. Not to mention the drama surrounding the glamourous kid who's just been away to disney land for 2 weeks while the rest of the class has been studying.

I think it is irresponsible and teaches the kids a bad example.

The prices are annoying but that's supply and demand for you.

The majority of kids holiday outside of term time, to take your kids out of school is like saying they're allowed to do as they please.. not a good example going in to adult hood.

GMajor7 · 06/01/2011 14:49

I do agree with everything you say catsmother, but when I was a child we couldn't afford holidays term time or otherwise. We simply went without. We survived and I don't begrudge it at all.

vintageteacups · 06/01/2011 14:49

mowiol Oh - it's the same then. I'm sure my cousins get longer off in Scotland - perhaps the dates just differ then?

BalloonSlayer · 06/01/2011 14:50

rofl at holidays in term time being justified as "giving the children the chance to experience another culture," then Centreparcs being given as an example of the prices going up. I suppose some children have never had any experience of middle-class culture and need to go to Centreparcs in order to get this.

I do feel sorry for the kids in secondary whose parents think they are doing them a favour by taking them on holiday in term time. They don't get to see their poor DC struggling to keep up, saying plaintively to the teacher: "Sir, I missed that lesson" (well it always worked in primary school!) and the teacher just shrugging and marking their work down.

gibbergabber · 06/01/2011 14:52

'At my DD's primary school (she is in Y1) you are allowed 2 weeks authorised term time holiday a year'

I think this is the crux of the matter.

You aren't allowed it.

The head is allowed to authorise 10 days in exceptional circumstances.

That's a different thing altogether.

follyfoot · 06/01/2011 14:52

What catsmother said...

And as for"If you can't afford a holiday outside of term time, then tough!" maybe one day that comment will come back to bite you on the bum.

I lived a pretty well off life when DD was very small, then all of a sudden we had nothing, and I mean nothing. DD and I werent able to afford a holiday for years, but when we were able to, we could only afford to do so in in term time. The school was absolutely fine with it and knew how good it would be for us to have a break.

They should have said "tough" I suppose Hmm

DoodleNoo · 06/01/2011 14:53

My family have been taking a holiday in term term ever since 1976 when I was a baby. It's for attending a specific cultural event, so couldn't be taken at any other time of year - but clearly after so long has become an important part of the wider fmaily calendar too, and the only time of the year that I / my children get to spend any length of time with their uncle & aunt, cousins etc.

I do feel awful taking them out of school though - hate asking and hate doing it - every year it puts me in a very difficult & uncomfortable position - but obviously I don't want to miss out on this special family time and the event I've been to every year of my own life. Thankfully our head is reasonably understanding - though I think he'd prefer not to authorise holidays in term time, he will do it, within limits.

I wouldn't choose to take them out of school any other time (even if it did mean that we could afford to do something other than UK camping trips!) - but on the plus side, it does make me very keen to get them to school every other day that I can - in order to keep their attendance percentages as high as possible so we have less chance of getting turned down for this break. In fact, I think I'd better get that leave of absence form filled in this week before they ruin their 100% attendance record with a bout of swine flu!

I have to say though, if it came to it, I'd take them without permision - so there!

Haribojoe · 06/01/2011 14:53

Our school will approve an absence if the child has a good attendance record.

Our school is also understanding of the fact that many parents cannot or have diffictulty in taking annual leave during school holidays.

Both my husband and I fall into this category and whilst we do our best to go away during holidays sometimes it is not possible.

Remotew · 06/01/2011 14:58

Our LA does allow 10 days holiday time. Always have.

As a single parent I wouldn't have been able to afford a holiday in school hols, the prices went up too much. Took DD out for a week or two most years, it didn't do her education any harm at all. As long as they get the work sheets when they return and have good attendance all other times, which she did, then it's absolutely fine.

wheelsonthebus · 06/01/2011 15:01

Acioonyx - agree with you. If I felt my dc's school was teaching them so much, so well, that I daren't take a day out, that would be one thing. But frankly, dc learn more with me and a couple of Letts educational guides than they ever do in a class of 30. And school hols holidays are extortionate, which has a knock on effect on stressed out working parents. It's not as if we are not trying our best. None of our holidays are without an educational element - from learning a bit of a foreign language, to nature trails, to geography

Mowiol · 06/01/2011 15:02

vintageteacups - yes, I think it's the differing dates that we have our holidays on up here!

I just want to say I DO understand the dilemma regarding working arrangements/shifts/forces families etc.
But having certificate class pupils Hmm going off on holidays (then hearing the inevitable wail of "But I wasn't here for that!") can become tiresome when you have made it abundantly clear they must catch up on the work they have missed.

Housemum · 06/01/2011 15:05

I think the problem is that now there is the opportunity to take up to 10days hold, people see it as a right rather than an exception a when I was growing up people hardly ever took kids out of school for holidays, people just felt it was "wrong", there were just a few exceptions like the posh kids whose patents took the to places like India which to be fair would be more educational than centre parcs or magaluf even if the parents didn't try! Personally I accept that holidays will be expensive and some years we can't afford it so have to be creative - local days out to cheap/free places, driving to a beach with a picnic - that's what we did last year. This year we have saved enough so have spent £1500 for 4 of us (5 if the teenager wants to come!) on ferry crossings and a gite for 2 weeks - still cheaper than a term time package deal to the med probably!

macmama · 06/01/2011 15:06

Spending special time with family is a massive part of social education.

The idea that time spent at school alone is the only education a child needs to become a well rounded adult is fairly mad.

I don't take the piss with termtime holidays but nor do I think my kids should miss out on a really amazing opportunity to be with family because they might miss a week of school, especially when very young. Older kids sitting GCSEs etc are obviously different

Mummy2Bookie · 06/01/2011 15:09

Won't affect us thankfully. We will have moved abroad by the time dd is at school age.

Decentdragon · 06/01/2011 15:10

I bet loads of parents of kids doing home ed, take them off for hols in term time

Of course they do, it's all part of educating them. Most h/eders don?t see learning as something that stops and starts because it?s x o?clock, x day, or your not in x building, place, etc.

Why not learn the difference/causes of attrition, abrasion and erosion dangling your feet in a river rather than in a classroom, and when you?re learning physics through surfing you do all your homework religiously :-D

When they where in school, we never took time out and I expected my children to get educated and for their education to matter. In the end I realised my expectations of what our school would give them where too high, and school?s expectations of what was acceptable, too low.

I think if you sign up to a school that genuinely delivers a curriculum at specific times, then the child should be there at those times to receive it, or alternative arrangements should be made.

KERALA1 · 06/01/2011 15:14

Applauds catsmother. Last night we checked out some flight prices. A single the week before half term was £38. At the beginning of half term its £168. OP YANBU in the least.

BuzzLightBeer · 06/01/2011 15:19

Can someone explain to me please about not getting permission to take them out? Why would you take any notice? What are they going to do to you if you go anyway?

BerylStreep · 06/01/2011 15:20

I pay for my DC education.

I will take them on holidays when it suits me, and will not be dictated to by the Government.

This does not mean I don't value my children's education, it just means I query the value of watching movies at school during the last week of term.

Given that recent experience has shown that schools will close their doors at the drop of a hat if snow is involved, I can't see how the same schools can criticise parents for taking a few days off to go on holiday.

I haven't seen the adverts. How does the government plan to collect the fines?

TheVisitor · 06/01/2011 15:23

I'm taking my children out for a week before half term to go to Portugal. DH and I will be working (painting and decorating the villa) whilst we're there, so it's a working holiday. I'll be taking the kids out of school whether the school agrees or not, as it's our living plus the kids will have their first ever foreign holiday as will I.

TheBrandyButterflyEffect · 06/01/2011 15:23

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