To think billboard adverts threatening parents about removing their children for a holiday in term time are a bit well, pathetic.

[BurningBuntingFlipFlop]

Haven't the government got bigger concerns?

Sure a couple of weeks of a child experiencing a different culture once a year during term time isn't that bad?

My children aren't old enough but if they were i probably wouldn't pull them out in term time personally. But i'm shocked that this is apparently a major concern in the education sector right now? What about the parents who just don't give a shit if their kids ever go to school? Or the cuts that are happening?

I can't find a link, they're in Manchester anyway.

[RustyBear]

As has been said before on this thread, the holiday companies' line is that term time prices are discounted, not school holiday prices raised - difficult to see how you could legislate for that without giving them an excuse to just raise term time prices too....

[Annabel7]

Don't see the problem unless it's a key time and kids catch up the work they've missed. Particularly for younger children. Maybe schools could give parents a week or so over the course of the year to use at their discretion for family stuff, holidays etc.. Some families may not get a holiday at all otherwise. I have such magic memories of family holidays seems a shame for some to miss out...

[Pernickety]

It depends how it really is. Aren't holiday companies charging the normal amount in holidays and then reducing the holidays in the time of low demand? I don't know. Just assumed that to be the case.

I like the greesy typo though

[triplets]

oops..........that of course should have been greedy!!

[triplets]

This debate could go on for ever. Each of us are entitled to our beliefs, there is no right or wrong. What is wrong, what would put an end to all of this is the greesy holiday companies being allowed to triple their prices at holiday times. Its unjust, unfair, it costs them no more, for cleaning, electricity etc at the beginning of July as it does at the end. If we weren`t being ripped off b y them, if they staggered their prices more fairly, then we would all be happy I am sure to take out family holidays during the alloted time. Its a campaign to get the government to look into this side of the coin thats needed. Well.....thats how I feel.

[stretchmummy]

It's politically an easy target. Schools aren't doing so well because of too much absenteeism, so we can blame the parents instead of the schools. Its all common sense really, a couple of long weekends OR a week in the summer aren't going to damage anyone. Two weeks three times a year are a problem.

[montysorry]

There absolutely needs to be a 'one rule for all' system.

It drives me nuts to think that when I taught in Surrey there was a 'no authorised absense for holiday' rule yet when I taught in Bradford and then Rochdale is was deemed ok to allow Asian family 6 or 8wks off to visit extended family. I know the rule is HT's decision but we need to have guideline which don't skirt around the issue. Which is that the government (or LAs) see it as politically sensitive to say no to the Asian families in Bradford/Rochdale but less so to say it to the family in Surrey.

[gibbergabber]

I'm all for flexibility and there is no excuse for parents of children who are chronically sick whom the school know, receiving standard letters about absence. They don't have to send the letter, that's bollocks frankly.

I am however snurking rather at the idea that schools could grant holidays for the brighter children because it's OK as they can keep up.

Imagine the threads on here - AIBU - school say they'll authorise dd's holiday as she got 10/10 in her spelling but ds has to be unauthorised because he's a bit thick.

There has to be a standard message and currently that is that term-time holidays are unacceptable.

[jugglingjo]

pernickety - You say "There's a lot of defensiveness on this thread" That doesn't necessarily mean those defending themselves are in the wrong. It could just be a reaction to being told we are in the wrong.

Like when the school mentioned shopping trips in a standard letter after my son was off school with shingles.

Also schools can and do fulfill a dual function. They both provide a learning environment and an education for our children, and also free up parents to do other things, such as work or look after younger children etc.

I don't see anything wrong with parents wanting more flexibility in the school system.
More and more schools are providing this through breakfast and after school clubs etc.

[Pernickety]

But what if it is a problem? I'm assuming the government aren't cracking fown on this solely to piss parents off. There must be a problem with too much absence from school and all parents could argue for their child's absence being more worthwhile than a day at school.

Are you really saying that it is okay for children to be absent from school if they are going to the Med, skiing or zipping down a zip wire but not okay if a child is spending a day at home, or shopping or at a family birthday party?

Who measures this worthiness? Is it not possible that parents who take their children out of school for holidays are exacerbating the problem of unauthorised absences because if term time holidays are seen as the done thing, the family who cannot afford any holiday will see it as their right to take time out of the school term too.

There's a lot of defensiveness on this thread. If flexibility is what you want out of school either campaign to change the current system so school is more like a drop in centre or educate your child yourself. Don't just sit around falsely complaining "the government is banning us from taking a holiday - ever"

[Ladywolf]

The government ought to be sticking their oar in with the money grabbing holiday companies.

[sarahtigh]

ultimately the education of a child is a parental responsibility if we delegate to school thats fine
The government has no money its all our money, I paid tax for 15 years before I had children to pay for education / nhs etc which I did not use at the time, everyone pays for our childrens free education, if you are home educationg or at public school you pay twice, lots of stuff at school is not educational, some school trips which they want extra money for are less eductional than a week at cenerparcs
I think provided your child is not behind it is ok in primary school especially week before christmas last week of summer term they do nothing then anyway

The government is just too fond of telling people what to do like they have no brains ( ok some people are idiots but not everyone)
a friends kid is quite bright and finishes most work in 15 mins then is supposed to entertain herself with mindless extra sums etc, which she finds really easy or sit in corner reading more books... she is probably only taught for 10 minutes a day tops
she would definitely not come to any harm being out of school.
some schools seem to run for teachers convienence not the children, look what a major headache it is when they shut at 30 mins notice because of a bit of snow and we are then supposed to take them out of school instantly what about fining school every time it shuts early!!!!!! and deprives kids of learning

[gibbergabber]

bluebabe - they can't fine you based on a school-wide agreement. It's not lawful.

I agree about schools having different rules being a PITA. Parents complain to me about this a fair bit.

[Mrsbell]

There is a difference between parents who don't give two hoots about their kids being off school and a child/children being taken out now & again for a hol. There would be a pattern of absence for the ones who don't care or abuse the system, in which case the school or LEA could take a different stance. My children have been taken out of school once a yr but only for 1 - 3 days and it saves you a fortune. I also have a 3 year old, so any hol becomes expensive. Just because you have kids doesn't mean we should be subjected to being ripped off by holiday companies. I've always been of the opinion that legally, holiday companies shouldnt be allowed to increase their prices so much during holiday periods. If prices were reduced parents wouldn't take their kids out and then pro-rata hol companies would still make the same. Also schools in the same borough were I live work by different rules. I have to fill in a official form weeks in advance, whereby one of my relatives calls in on the day and nothing is ever said!!

[bluebabe20]

This is a real bone of contention for me. I took dd out of school once when she was 5. First full week year 1. This was not a decision I took lightly. I even had the verbal agreement of the head to do this. By the time I filled the form in the EWO had drawn up an agreement with all schools in the areal basically forbidding any holidays in term time. (think only exception bereavement or Armed |Forces) This means if we were to do it again we would be fined.
This trip was a visit to the country of our heritage for a big family gathering. DC learned about history of the country and got to spend valuable time with relatives. To me that was more valuable than the first full week of term in year 1.

[ReindeerBollocks]

DC1 has a long term illness. The school are amazingly supportive, the LA are not and routinely sent the letters threatening prosecution for absence, for the first two school years. DP rang the LA and said if they sent anymore letters we would push them to prosecute us AND when they lost (which they would, as long term illness is the only defence for absence) then we would bring a costs order against the LA for upset,distress and solicitors costs (DPs work lol). Funnily enough we never received another letter...

Before it is made a billboard issue the LAs should set out clearly what their rules are. They are so different depending on the school and it's results. Why is it fair for one parents in one school to be allowed a week holiday when another set of parents in another school in the same district cannot?

If it was agreed that no holidays were allowed then I would probably support the campaign, but there are too many inconsistencies in the current system, the Government should try sorting that out first.

[TheKingAndI]

Can I just add that it may not be for purely financial reasons that holidays are taken during term time.

We run a farm and it's absolutely impossible to take any holidays whatsoever during the summer or easter holidays, we can't go away at Christmas because the other people who work on the farm also want time off and it wouldn't leave enough people to do the work.

Basically, we can only go away in the (very rare) quiet times, which is usually early to mid Jan, maybe a week in November if the weather's been kind earlier in the year. Hence why we're off tomorrow for a week's skiing. But our children have gained so much confidence from learning to ski (and this week they were again watching DVDs at school!)

[Zola78]

I have 4 children, two of which are school age. We looked into taking a family holiday in the school holidays and the cost was triple the price of the holiday in term time. My school age children are both in key stage 1 whereby they do a lot of learning through play and need a lot of our help as parents to progress. So what do you do? You want to enjoy time together relaxing as a family as well as wanting to show your children that school is important.

We took our family holiday in term time last year purely for financial reasons (we went camping in the south of France) plus out of season it's easier to manage small children .

It should all be done in context. My children had excellent attendance, we do our part at home and we support the school with our time, money etc. We aren't all in the same camp

[Pernickety]

judge

[Pernickety]

Hmmm - I am clearly in the minority with my thinking here. I suspect, based on responses here, that expectation for term time holidays has risen and so is now causing a bigger problem within schools.

I still don't know how the LEA can reprimand one family for taking their child out of school for a shopping trip but give the seal of approval to the family who take their child out of school to go to Butlins. Who is going to be the jusge of 'worthwhile absence'?

I think if you want to grant every pupil an authorised week off in term time for holiday, you have to give that to every family for whatever reason they choose. And extend it to everyone who works in schools (can't imagine lunchtime assitants can easily afford a school holiday break.)

[annielennox]

I posted a couple of days ago, so i'm repeating myself a bit.

I am a Headteacher and we are under massive prssure from Ofsted to meet at least 96% attendance. So we can't be seen to be condoning time off for holidays. I can hardly authorise any as my school doesn't meet this 96% target.

It can def stop a school getting an outstanding or good rating. (Not agreeing with the system - just saying how it is).

Having said that it's dreadful that some of you have been hassled when your have been really unwell etc - that is you being caught up in an automated system that looks at attendance figures and then prints out a letter. (I don't use one of these - it causes more problems than it solves).

My own DCs go to another school - I have taken them out for holiday as their school can afford to be a bit more easy going (i.e it meets its target already). My DH takes them on holi as I can't go cos I am at work

[pinarollo]

Yes this totally OTT. It doesn't seem to occur to the government and some schools that many of us can't automatically get off work in school holidays. I work in a public service and have to share school hols with others - I can only get school hols some of the time.

I've, so far, grudgingly gone along with the edicts but feel very bad about this. Family holidays have been some of the richest family experiences and we are are missing out on a lot.

Term time holidays are also v expensive and often very crowded.

On the face of it, it is OTT of schools to push this - after all they have perhaps the lowest threshold of any organisation for closing in 'bad' weather; they frequently waste time towards the end of term and term-time trips are not unknown are they?

But, certainly at my children's school, it is clear that teachers are v sympathetic to parents. Privately they say it's silly but they are under pressure (targets/edicts) from central gouvernment so have little real leeway. It leaves many of us unsure what to do.

It's time we returned toa bit of common sense, allowing max 10 school days per year with the head's approval. Perhaps with rules on total absences (you lose the days if you take sick days?) or avoiding exam years.

Overall there is a gulf in reality between parents and Whitehall on this one and I think parents should take on the government on this one.

Another good idea would be nationally staggered school holidays like France does.

[littlemissindecisive]

And as also suggested change the old fashioned structure of the school terms. Doesn;t the 6 week break stem from ages ago when kids would help families on farms in the run up to harvest? or is that an urban myth???? Whatever reason, there're no bloody need for 6 weeks off in a row. Even when i was teaching i found it totally unneccesary. Spread the holidays out more evenly!

[TwoIfBySea]

Maybe this should be a Mumsnet cause - either allow parents one week during term time or get the holiday companies to lower prices!

[smk84]

As a primary teacher I see no problem at all in children being given a week or 2 off in term time. It can be valuable, but even if the experience is not, the time is not irretrievable. If the school is doing a good job topics will be revisited anyway. I think it's ridiculous to put such an emphasis on such a small matter. Parents can often lead very stressful lives and the break could do the whole family good. As finances are often a major pressure taking holiday in term time may be their only option for a break. Stop the nanny state I say !!