To think billboard adverts threatening parents about removing their children for a holiday in term time are a bit well, pathetic.

[BurningBuntingFlipFlop]

Haven't the government got bigger concerns?

Sure a couple of weeks of a child experiencing a different culture once a year during term time isn't that bad?

My children aren't old enough but if they were i probably wouldn't pull them out in term time personally. But i'm shocked that this is apparently a major concern in the education sector right now? What about the parents who just don't give a shit if their kids ever go to school? Or the cuts that are happening?

I can't find a link, they're in Manchester anyway.

[jugglingjo]

Well said "pour me another glass" ( I'm enjoying a nice bottle of perry ATM - my grandfather's favourite tipple, and coming back into fashion ?! )

I'd like to see some statistics on the well-being and educational achievement of children who've had some absence from school for a family holiday, compared to that of those who's parents have never requested this.

I think those who've taken such holiday would do at least as well, having confident, pro-active parents who believe they can make the best decisions for their children and family, are not intimidated by authority, and believe children are learning all the time.

But I doubt if government statistics could stretch to such a level of sophistication !

[Pixel]

"On the other hand, I would like to see summer school holidays occur in the month of June, when the UK seems to be blessed with the best weather. By the time August comes the summer is over"

Here, here, Pernickety. When your only holiday is camping you notice the truth of this year after year. It's always frustrating when dcs have spent weeks sweltering in classrooms and as soon as they break up the weather changes.

Staggered holidays (as suggested earlier) I'm not so sure about. Ds goes to a SN school miles away, I'm willing to bet his holidays would turn out to be different to dd's, as INSET days do already.

[TwoIfBySea]

I think it is a ridiculous argument to state that any parent who takes their child out of school to go on holiday doesn't value education.

I do my best to get as close to the holidays as possible so my dts only miss a day or two. FFS you'd think I was Moriarty with the letter I get from school.

We need to get away, we need the break and while we are away my dts learn something of the country they are visiting. There are lots of things parents can do to ensure their child doesn't fall behind and missing a few days of school each year so the family doesn't burn out from the drudgery and grind of life is not a crime!

Example: we went to Mallorca this year, as well as my dts being allowed to be boys and play all day in the sunshine (vitamin D see I look after their health too) we also went to Palma, the Caves of Drach. My dts learned a lot, got a very healthy respect for history in Palma Cathedral.

They won't get anything near that in school. Sometimes I wish I had the money to home school if this is the stupid attitude they have to deal with.

[TwoIfBySea]

Oh and to add, when the schools in Scotland became so strict about this we were told that holiday companies would be required to be fairer in their prices.

We were expected to toe the line but the holiday companies are laughing!

(Also I want to take my dts to a German market - they haven't been since they were two. It means a couple of days off of school. I haven't done it yet so they miss out another great learning opportunity.)

[jugglingjo]

When the school suggests a trip it's always a "very valuable learning opportunity" or whatever. And part of the national curriculum etc. etc.

When we want to take them it's irresponsible skiving, and likely to lead to delinquency !

It boils down to a massive lack of respect for parents !

[jugglingjo]

mj

The time we had a letter from school about attendance was after my DS was off with shingles. This can be a really nasty illness and is fairly uncommon in children.

I was shocked that on top of my worry at my son's illness I had a letter talking about how there was plenty of time for shopping at the weekends ( I forget exactly, but I know it had the word "shopping" in it }

I complained to the school, mainly in the hope that it would prevent worse upset for another parent. Fortunately my DS was soon better and back to school happily.

I have similar misgivings about 100% attendance certificates. Surely most children are off school because of illness. Those that can attain 100% attendance are already the lucky ones.

[redbunnyfruitcake]

Aaaarg I hate all this crap about not taking kids out of school as though education is the be all and end all of life. I may get slated for this and I don't care because I still believe in having some freedom in my own bloody life. It's not just about the holiday its about being able to choose what I want to do rather than school authorities telling me what to do because it suits them. I really can't see how a week here and there is going to inconvenience the school or ruin my child's education. There rant over. Was this why I left school with no qualifications at 15? Turned out ok in the end though.

[smk84]

As a primary teacher I see no problem at all in children being given a week or 2 off in term time. It can be valuable, but even if the experience is not, the time is not irretrievable. If the school is doing a good job topics will be revisited anyway. I think it's ridiculous to put such an emphasis on such a small matter. Parents can often lead very stressful lives and the break could do the whole family good. As finances are often a major pressure taking holiday in term time may be their only option for a break. Stop the nanny state I say !!

[TwoIfBySea]

Maybe this should be a Mumsnet cause - either allow parents one week during term time or get the holiday companies to lower prices!

[littlemissindecisive]

And as also suggested change the old fashioned structure of the school terms. Doesn;t the 6 week break stem from ages ago when kids would help families on farms in the run up to harvest? or is that an urban myth???? Whatever reason, there're no bloody need for 6 weeks off in a row. Even when i was teaching i found it totally unneccesary. Spread the holidays out more evenly!

[pinarollo]

Yes this totally OTT. It doesn't seem to occur to the government and some schools that many of us can't automatically get off work in school holidays. I work in a public service and have to share school hols with others - I can only get school hols some of the time.

I've, so far, grudgingly gone along with the edicts but feel very bad about this. Family holidays have been some of the richest family experiences and we are are missing out on a lot.

Term time holidays are also v expensive and often very crowded.

On the face of it, it is OTT of schools to push this - after all they have perhaps the lowest threshold of any organisation for closing in 'bad' weather; they frequently waste time towards the end of term and term-time trips are not unknown are they?

But, certainly at my children's school, it is clear that teachers are v sympathetic to parents. Privately they say it's silly but they are under pressure (targets/edicts) from central gouvernment so have little real leeway. It leaves many of us unsure what to do.

It's time we returned toa bit of common sense, allowing max 10 school days per year with the head's approval. Perhaps with rules on total absences (you lose the days if you take sick days?) or avoiding exam years.

Overall there is a gulf in reality between parents and Whitehall on this one and I think parents should take on the government on this one.

Another good idea would be nationally staggered school holidays like France does.

[annielennox]

I posted a couple of days ago, so i'm repeating myself a bit.

I am a Headteacher and we are under massive prssure from Ofsted to meet at least 96% attendance. So we can't be seen to be condoning time off for holidays. I can hardly authorise any as my school doesn't meet this 96% target.

It can def stop a school getting an outstanding or good rating. (Not agreeing with the system - just saying how it is).

Having said that it's dreadful that some of you have been hassled when your have been really unwell etc - that is you being caught up in an automated system that looks at attendance figures and then prints out a letter. (I don't use one of these - it causes more problems than it solves).

My own DCs go to another school - I have taken them out for holiday as their school can afford to be a bit more easy going (i.e it meets its target already). My DH takes them on holi as I can't go cos I am at work

[Pernickety]

Hmmm - I am clearly in the minority with my thinking here. I suspect, based on responses here, that expectation for term time holidays has risen and so is now causing a bigger problem within schools.

I still don't know how the LEA can reprimand one family for taking their child out of school for a shopping trip but give the seal of approval to the family who take their child out of school to go to Butlins. Who is going to be the jusge of 'worthwhile absence'?

I think if you want to grant every pupil an authorised week off in term time for holiday, you have to give that to every family for whatever reason they choose. And extend it to everyone who works in schools (can't imagine lunchtime assitants can easily afford a school holiday break.)

[Pernickety]

judge

[Zola78]

I have 4 children, two of which are school age. We looked into taking a family holiday in the school holidays and the cost was triple the price of the holiday in term time. My school age children are both in key stage 1 whereby they do a lot of learning through play and need a lot of our help as parents to progress. So what do you do? You want to enjoy time together relaxing as a family as well as wanting to show your children that school is important.

We took our family holiday in term time last year purely for financial reasons (we went camping in the south of France) plus out of season it's easier to manage small children .

It should all be done in context. My children had excellent attendance, we do our part at home and we support the school with our time, money etc. We aren't all in the same camp

[TheKingAndI]

Can I just add that it may not be for purely financial reasons that holidays are taken during term time.

We run a farm and it's absolutely impossible to take any holidays whatsoever during the summer or easter holidays, we can't go away at Christmas because the other people who work on the farm also want time off and it wouldn't leave enough people to do the work.

Basically, we can only go away in the (very rare) quiet times, which is usually early to mid Jan, maybe a week in November if the weather's been kind earlier in the year. Hence why we're off tomorrow for a week's skiing. But our children have gained so much confidence from learning to ski (and this week they were again watching DVDs at school!)

[ReindeerBollocks]

DC1 has a long term illness. The school are amazingly supportive, the LA are not and routinely sent the letters threatening prosecution for absence, for the first two school years. DP rang the LA and said if they sent anymore letters we would push them to prosecute us AND when they lost (which they would, as long term illness is the only defence for absence) then we would bring a costs order against the LA for upset,distress and solicitors costs (DPs work lol). Funnily enough we never received another letter...

Before it is made a billboard issue the LAs should set out clearly what their rules are. They are so different depending on the school and it's results. Why is it fair for one parents in one school to be allowed a week holiday when another set of parents in another school in the same district cannot?

If it was agreed that no holidays were allowed then I would probably support the campaign, but there are too many inconsistencies in the current system, the Government should try sorting that out first.

[bluebabe20]

This is a real bone of contention for me. I took dd out of school once when she was 5. First full week year 1. This was not a decision I took lightly. I even had the verbal agreement of the head to do this. By the time I filled the form in the EWO had drawn up an agreement with all schools in the areal basically forbidding any holidays in term time. (think only exception bereavement or Armed |Forces) This means if we were to do it again we would be fined.
This trip was a visit to the country of our heritage for a big family gathering. DC learned about history of the country and got to spend valuable time with relatives. To me that was more valuable than the first full week of term in year 1.

[Mrsbell]

There is a difference between parents who don't give two hoots about their kids being off school and a child/children being taken out now & again for a hol. There would be a pattern of absence for the ones who don't care or abuse the system, in which case the school or LEA could take a different stance. My children have been taken out of school once a yr but only for 1 - 3 days and it saves you a fortune. I also have a 3 year old, so any hol becomes expensive. Just because you have kids doesn't mean we should be subjected to being ripped off by holiday companies. I've always been of the opinion that legally, holiday companies shouldnt be allowed to increase their prices so much during holiday periods. If prices were reduced parents wouldn't take their kids out and then pro-rata hol companies would still make the same. Also schools in the same borough were I live work by different rules. I have to fill in a official form weeks in advance, whereby one of my relatives calls in on the day and nothing is ever said!!

[gibbergabber]

bluebabe - they can't fine you based on a school-wide agreement. It's not lawful.

I agree about schools having different rules being a PITA. Parents complain to me about this a fair bit.

[sarahtigh]

ultimately the education of a child is a parental responsibility if we delegate to school thats fine
The government has no money its all our money, I paid tax for 15 years before I had children to pay for education / nhs etc which I did not use at the time, everyone pays for our childrens free education, if you are home educationg or at public school you pay twice, lots of stuff at school is not educational, some school trips which they want extra money for are less eductional than a week at cenerparcs
I think provided your child is not behind it is ok in primary school especially week before christmas last week of summer term they do nothing then anyway

The government is just too fond of telling people what to do like they have no brains ( ok some people are idiots but not everyone)
a friends kid is quite bright and finishes most work in 15 mins then is supposed to entertain herself with mindless extra sums etc, which she finds really easy or sit in corner reading more books... she is probably only taught for 10 minutes a day tops
she would definitely not come to any harm being out of school.
some schools seem to run for teachers convienence not the children, look what a major headache it is when they shut at 30 mins notice because of a bit of snow and we are then supposed to take them out of school instantly what about fining school every time it shuts early!!!!!! and deprives kids of learning

[Ladywolf]

The government ought to be sticking their oar in with the money grabbing holiday companies.

[Pernickety]

But what if it is a problem? I'm assuming the government aren't cracking fown on this solely to piss parents off. There must be a problem with too much absence from school and all parents could argue for their child's absence being more worthwhile than a day at school.

Are you really saying that it is okay for children to be absent from school if they are going to the Med, skiing or zipping down a zip wire but not okay if a child is spending a day at home, or shopping or at a family birthday party?

Who measures this worthiness? Is it not possible that parents who take their children out of school for holidays are exacerbating the problem of unauthorised absences because if term time holidays are seen as the done thing, the family who cannot afford any holiday will see it as their right to take time out of the school term too.

There's a lot of defensiveness on this thread. If flexibility is what you want out of school either campaign to change the current system so school is more like a drop in centre or educate your child yourself. Don't just sit around falsely complaining "the government is banning us from taking a holiday - ever"