To think billboard adverts threatening parents about removing their children for a holiday in term time are a bit well, pathetic.

[BurningBuntingFlipFlop]

Haven't the government got bigger concerns?

Sure a couple of weeks of a child experiencing a different culture once a year during term time isn't that bad?

My children aren't old enough but if they were i probably wouldn't pull them out in term time personally. But i'm shocked that this is apparently a major concern in the education sector right now? What about the parents who just don't give a shit if their kids ever go to school? Or the cuts that are happening?

I can't find a link, they're in Manchester anyway.

Strictly speaking, the rule is the same at all schools - the rule is that it's at the head's discretion, because it's the head of an invidual school who is best placed to decide what effect absences will have on teaching and learning, for the school as a whole and for the individual pupil.

In some authorities they have imposed their own borough or county-wide rule, but strictly speaking the head could go against that - it's just that opposing the LA on that kind of issue can cause major issues for the head, so most will toe the line.

As for holidays being justified because they're "culturally educational"?! What's wrong with going on holiday (not necessarily abroad) just to spend quality time with your kids!

As a working mum school holidays don't mean squat to me - I sometimes have to work through Christmas and other public holidays. I agree with the post which said it's more worthwhile to crack down on holiday operators who inflate their prices the day schools break up.

But until then who are you to judge what other parents do? My kids won't turn feral if they're not in school but spending time with me.

notsohotchic Fri 07-Jan-11 10:35:54
The rules should be the same across all schools. A friends daughter goes to a school with a high proportion of international kids, NO PROBLEM when they want to go on hols. Whereas I had to go and BEG the head for 2 days off at the end of the Autumn term to go on a one-off holiday at Christmas. She only agreed because we've had a family crisis

The rule is the same really and that is...it's down to the HT and Governors to decide the policy.

If you feel priority is being given to children who have come from different countries, then a letter to the chair of Governors is probably in order.

One thing that has happened here (small northern town) over the last five years is the abandonment of the traditional holidays and the adoption of a standard holiday year.

Schools used to break up for the 'wakes' holidays - the 2 weeks at the start of July and go back mid August then have another week oe two off in september. So two chances for a cheaper deal - early July or September.

I realise exams etc have to be accomodated but surely there is some scope for flexibility.

dockate the fact that mainstream education is largely narrow-minded and children learn far more from their parents if their parents are able to provide to their kids the opportunity to learn about the world, transportation, finances, logistics, climate and cultures including languages, architecture and 'different-ness' by taking them, at whatever time of the year, to a foreign country and give their kids a practical LIVE, learning environment then they should be encouraged to do so. and be supported. Capable parents should be the final authority. not schools.

Have posted before on this subject. But they are my children and I decide when and if they can go on holiday. I know my family best, not the government or school. I refuse to ask permission to take them on holiday with me. I did not sign the school agreement that said 'holidays taken during term time are not allowed'. I have always acknowledged important times during the school calander, and support the school in many ways. Some years we have had a holiday during term time and other years not. My eldest is taking A levels this year and we will take a holiday when she has finished her last exam at the end of June.

Just to put the record straight - those that pay for their children's education also take them out during term time. My daughter goes to an independent school and that is allowed within reason.

Just because people pay for schooling doesn't mean they can also afford extortionate holiday prices. I have to put my child into an independent school as there were no state schools available even though i'm paying tax for them! I would challenge the government to give me a bloody fine for taking her out during term time although i haven't done it yet.

I second catsmother's post, couldn't have put it better myself.

It still shocks me how some people stand on their moral grounds and say such ridiculous statements like "If you don't want to go in school holidays don't have kids" WTF? Get a grip will you! Cookoo!

Pernickity - You ask me what the teacher should do if lots of people took the same 2 weeks off at the beginning of the school year ?

Some quality work settling in those who are there. and consolidating their experiences from the summer

And prepare a large map of the world and of this country so that when children return to school they can tell their classmates all about their experiences !
Could be a learning focus 'til the autumn half-term !

Isn't really going to happen in any case. I would think many more would choose to take a little extra time at the end of the school year, or added on to one of the half-term hols, or Easter. And many, many would not take up the option. But it would be fair, respectful of parents, and straight-forward to give the option to all !

I'd like to see much more respect for parents and the home-school partnership. And much better use made of learning opportunities the children have had outside of school !

It is the traval agents fault really and not the schools.

I tried to book a travel agent holiday for feb half term but they were at least 500quid each (for 4) to go somewhere I didnt particularly want to go so I reverted to ownersdirect and easyjet and lo and behold - half the price and a villa and private pool - why does everyone love the packages so much - I just dont understand it...

I would rather not take my child out but frankly the cost of holidays in school holidays is prohibitive. My child has excellent attendance the rest of the year and I feel family holidays are beneficial to us all. We wouldn't take a fortnight anyway. They don't stop learning on holiday with us.
Again they need to target the serial offenders where attendance is affecting the child's performance.

I've only got to page 9 but hooray Catsmother

My daughter isn't at school yet, but I would have no qualms taking her out of school for a family holiday & I do take education very seriously.

My husband works shifts & would only see his daughter for one & a bit days a week. He doesn't get a choice of when his holidays are or get bank holidays.

Does anyone think would be good for her 'education'?

Personally I think that would be very 'tough'

I am surprised that everyone is so wound up about not being able to holiday outside school holidays.
Trips abroad are, lets face it, a luxury, while education is a necessity. One doesn't HAVE to holiday abroad (or indeed in Butlins) to be happy.
And those who suggest that government should ban travel companies from charging more during times of greater demand, obviously have no idea how businesses work. Imagine you had a holiday home, which you could only rent out in the summer - would you cut your prices then or in December when no-one wants to stay in your place?!
Complaining about the price of holidays during school breaks is like complaining about the cost of food and clothing for your children. Kinda goes with the territory.
Unless you all are willing to pay yet more tax for the government to subsidise your holidays.

Wouldn't have to be a holiday abroad though would it? A holiday is just that - time away from the norm. You could, in theory, stay at home for a week........if you couldn't afford to 'go away' or if parents couldn't get time off in school hols.

Exactly, vintageteacups! I think lots of commentators are missing the point of quality time with family!

People have mentioned that schools need 95% attendance or higher to have a chance of outstanding, even if the teaching and admin is already outstanding. Does this encompass all absence, or just unauthorised? Does it include sickness? It seems ridiculous if it does. Holidays should be very much at head's discretion, but if he/she authorises it that shouldn't count against the school - it's the unauthorised absences/truancy/odd sick days from an apparently healthy child that should flag up concerns to investigate, and the school should be assessed on how those are dealt with.

But I still feel that having entrusted my DDs to a school for the bulk of their education, I should be playing my part by getting them there as often as possible. I can't say I'd never take them out for hols, but it would have to be an exceptional opportunity as there is no reason that DH can't have school hols off.

This isn't just an "abroad" argument though is it ? If you holiday in the UK, prices for hotels, rented holiday homes, admission prices and so on .... all go up too. The last time we rented somewhere in the UK - years ago - the cost of 1 week in the summer hols was more than double what it would have been in term time. Many "attractions" (admittedly not compulsory) also have "peak" ticket prices in school holidays.

Last year, we got the July report saying DD's attendance was 'well below average'.
why on earth the head couldn't have put below average (it was 96%)I do not understand.

She was ill for more days than usual, she had 2 half day hospital apps and one half day for my grandfather's funeral (which they took from the 10 day holiday allowance).

Would they rather me have sent her in sick to spread it all around???

We added up that our last trip to Center parcs was actually cheaper than 4 days out in London doing the sites (with train fares added on, staying in a cheap hotel and meals out). Days out in the UK are not cheap - unless you go to the beach/woods etc.

Housemum - the 95% is all absence.

Authorised absence, sickness, agreed holidays in term-time etc counts against the school as much as unauthorised. At one time Ofsted were more concerned about unauthorised absence but that's not the case these days - Ofsted understand that if you are tackling absence then your unauthorised rate will rise anyway, because you can't start down the road of fining parents if you keep authorising the absence. If your absence is below 95% then it's considered satisfactory at best and will influence the overall rate. Also schools have to be seen to be tackling persistant absence by way of letters, attendance support clinics etc otherwise this has a further effect on the overall grading. Challenging absence is considered under the 'Care, guidance and support' area of an inspection.

vintage - blimey - I'd be cheering from the rooftops if you were one of my pupils.

why?

This whole 'the school won't tell me when I can and can't take my child on holiday' is a bit bolshy. Education is compulsory in this country. You either educate your child yourself to a set standard or you send them to school. Why not home educate if you want to have the freedom to do what you want, when you want? Those who use schools should not just see them as babysitters for when it is convenient to them.

I'm sure there are many parents out there who don't get their child to school every day because they can't be bothered to get ready on time and who say 'the school won't tell me what I can do with my child'.

A school is an instituion and there need to be blanket rules otherwise there would be chaos. I certainly don't like everything about the institution of school but I choose it over home education because my children are happy there and it enables me to work.

Average attendance at my school is 92%. At 96% your child wouldn't even be on the radar.

There are so many reasons for not having inflexible rules about holidays in term time. We take our dc out every year as otherwise they would never see their grandparents, aunt, uncle and extended family who live many thousands of miles away in the southern hemispere and who, for many reasons, cannot travel here themselves. We take 1-2 weeks (depending on how bank holidays fall) tacked on to the beginning of the Christmas or Easter holidays.

It is only in the last year that we have started getting letters about the children's attendance for the year. Ridiculous really when most of the half terms they get certificates for being at school every day and on time, complete and hand in all homework on time, are members of the school council and in the case of ds1 go to school early every day to hand out the registers.

Incidentally neither the head nor their teachers objects to them missing school. And because it is a really mixed London school there are loads of children doing the same in order to visit family.