To think billboard adverts threatening parents about removing their children for a holiday in term time are a bit well, pathetic.

[BurningBuntingFlipFlop]

Haven't the government got bigger concerns?

Sure a couple of weeks of a child experiencing a different culture once a year during term time isn't that bad?

My children aren't old enough but if they were i probably wouldn't pull them out in term time personally. But i'm shocked that this is apparently a major concern in the education sector right now? What about the parents who just don't give a shit if their kids ever go to school? Or the cuts that are happening?

I can't find a link, they're in Manchester anyway.

As I now work in a school that's what we will be doing.

Since they were little we haven't taken any term time hols - partly because my DD especially wouldn't let us as she'd reckon she;d get in too much trouble at school/ she's after her 100% attendance certificate !

But personally I'd prefer a more relaxed approach to a bona fide annual family holiday in term-time. If I was from another country and wanted to visit family I'd definitely do it, and think this should be understood and supported. Instead of making people feel slightly like criminals for behaving in a perfectly reasonable way.

I would think children taking lots of odd days off here and there for no apparent reason, and without parental permission, were more in need of chasing up - for the sake of their futures.

Of course holiday companies whack up their prices in the hols, that's how capitalism works.

I suspect some of the people who say they can't afford to go away in the holidays could actually do it if they scaled back. Youth hostels have nice family rooms these days and you get a discount if you have a family railcard (and you can get offers on them, too).

Although of course there are some families who are really struggling, those who are at the sharpest end won't be going away at all, never mind in term time.

We took our DS out of school for a week one (it was tagged on the end of another week where he had been off school) -at the time although I felt a bit uneasy about it I did feel it was justified as it was a 'cultural trip' and we were also attending a family wedding. ( It was a trip to Kenya and the cultural part was a safari).
However although he's a bright kid I do feel he fell behind a bit and as the teacher didn't go over the work he'd missed he was really left to catch up himself.

We did ask permission from the Rector before we made the booking and this was granted but I do feel in hindsight I shouldn't have done it.

Other than that one time we have always taken our holidays in the alloted school holiday times.

I do appreciate we a fortunate though and are lucky enough to be able to afford the increased prices we have to pay to go away in the easter, summer and christmas holiday periods (a week either side does tend to see prices fall dramatically)

Sorry just skimmed through the last page or so of this thread so I might be repeating stuff.
I've never once taken my dcs out of school in term-time for a holiday. This means that since ds was born (10.5 yrs) we have been unable to afford to go abroad. We therefore go camping as the only affordable choice, but because dh has not been allowed to take much time off during the school holidays (when everyone else wants to get away too), we only ever get a week at a time, which goes by all too quickly.

Tbh, I now wish we had taken them out and had a few decent holidays (Ds's SN school would probably be all for it actually as he does learn a lot from getting out of his comfort zone). Dd on the other hand breezed through primary school and wouldn't have found it a problem to miss a couple of weeks. However, dh and I do value education and always made sure she had very good attendance. Now she is in year 10 and I see the school's attitude to her education I wonder why we bothered. It's not nice being lectured to about attendance when the school closes at the drop of a hat for the feeblest of reasons. Here's a recent example: The school was closed for a whole day for 'target setting day'. Dh and I obediently traipsed up to the school and waited around to see the teacher for this momentous occasion only to be out in the corridor 5 mins later after the teacher said "oh [dd] I can't think of any targets for you. I'll put 'do maths'" (meaning maths homework she had already been set and was halfway through). Soon after that we received through the post a letter with a very threatening tone asking us to explain 1 day's absence and pointing out that the EWO had been informed. DD had been on a taster day at university, with a group organised by the school. To say all this is really starting to grate is an understatement to say the least! And this is far from the only incident.

If dd didn't have exams coming up soon I would rather pay the £100 fine and go somewhere nice for a change (ie, not involving wellies).

Oh please. What a lot of stupid and ignorant comments as usual.
I completely object to being told "don't have kids" and It's only a few years. 5 to 15, theres a 5 year age gap between my 2 so actually that would be no holidays unless extortianetly expensive for 20 years. Then I will be 58.How good in a bikini will I be then FFS?
I am perfectly capable of ensuring my son will not suffer educationally for the 5 days we are going away.
AND For heavens sake yesterday we were pulled up by the teacher and berated because my son took milk at break time when we have paid for juice, apparently this sent them into meltdown as figures wrong, costings wrong and one child who was expecting milk had to have juice. What planet are thay on? god forbid teachers like this ever have to work in real world.

I teach in a secondary school and have just finished my regular analysis of acievement of a year group. Only 15% of the underachievers have attendance over 90% and none over 95%. It is completely clear every year that there is a strong link between grades and attendance. I'm not saying holidays are dreadful but those of you who think they have no impact ime are mistaken.

I am a headteacher and I hardly authorise any term time holiday because my school has poor attendance overall and I can't afford to be seen to be condoning even more tme off. Yes Ofsted are totally into attendance and we have to reach 96% to get satisfactory, even higher for good or outstanding. A good Ofsted report matters as otherwise Heads can lose their jobs, and it means we can recruit better teachers and more children. not agreeing with the system - just saying how it is!

(As a parent my views on trem time holiday are different and I have asked for my own DCs to have time off - they go away with their dad; I can't go cos I am at work)

We're talking one week Enjol not consistent truancy.

A week or two out of school is not going to make any difference to education. I love spending quality time with my children on holiday, I could not afford to go in term time. Its ok for the school to close for polling days and inset days.

Some years i'll take them out and some years i won't, depending on kids ages at school, exams, family events, money and things as a family we'd like to do and experience - all dependent on circumstance.

I'm pleased most schools seem to have a flexible, rational and reasonable approach to this, looking at each case in turn rather than a whole school ban. Not this 'holier than thou attitude'.....

yes enjol but have you compared absence due to holiday as opposed to underperforming due to random and countless days of absence?

annie as you say your school has bad attendance to begin with, you're spot on not to allow kids another reason to be off. Most parents would agree with you i'd think. if my dd was never there, there's not a hope in hell she's be out for an annual holiday...

come on people, its not rocket science is it? There are parents who don't give a craop and their kids have poor attendance and low grades (not that you can only attribute one to the other) and then there are parents who take their children out once a year for a holiday, when they have decide its ok.

If you can't tell the difference you shouldn't be in a position to be doing anything about any of it.

And without making this a class issue...the shcools i've worked in (kids from all backgrounds)...it wasn't the kids that underperformed due to 2 weeks in the med...rather the kids that never went anywhere but skived or who's parents never gave a toss about them anyway .

crossed posts buzz

Enjolraslove - obviously not trying to tell you your job :) and your figures do show a link between underachievement and poor attendance. However, we cannot necessarily draw the conclusion that poor attendance is the cause of the underachievement - there may be an underlying reason for both. Or, the poor attendance of some students may be as a result of them feeling as though they are not coping in lessons and bunking off ( not saying this is acceptable, but it happens ) . Sometimes students with poor attendance achieve better than expected results.

I do agree that , in general, good attendance can help students meet or exceed targets. But it is not a cut-and-dried issue.

i took my children out in term time last year and doing so again this year. I have no choice because of dh job and the prices are to expensive out of term time my children look forward to the holiday and so do we. If they were doing exams that would be different.

You can also have 100% attendance and arse around everyday, disrupting lessons and doing sod all work ...with some teachers wishing you were skiving!!!

I'm a teacher and I do agree with the fact that low attendance is seriously not good for grades. But I don't think this is due to holidays, I think this is the sort of kid that has a day off "sick" at least every week or two and perhaps truancy issues.

I know full well that the last week of the summer term is not exactly the most educationally beneficial of the year. I can understand that parents can save a couple of hundred pounds by taking kids out of the last few days of school. I don't really think this will damage their prospects much in the long run!
It's worse if you take your holiday at the beginning of September as it is really important to be there at the beginning of the school year to settle into new routines. But missing a few days in July is probably harmless. Note I said a few days, not weeks.

Also many people have kids. So not all employers can accommodate all requests for leave during school holidays. If everyone in a work place asks for two weeks off in August, some people will be disappointed and it would be a shame if their families got no holiday at all as a result.

Instead of wasting money on billboards why don't the government put a cap in place saying that companies can only charge say 10% more in school holidays.

I'm quite easy going about this and think it should be down to individual parental choice depending on their circumstances. We don't but I'd never criticise those who do. But 2 things,

1. Re Centerparcs,; We take the kids every May half term. They love it and although we also go away in the summer, it's probably the most educational trip of the year. Last year all three did archery, DS and DD1 did a woodland walk with the park ranger early morning to find various animals, DS did a minibeast hunt, and DD2 learned to swim without her float. The previous year, DS had done a session with a bird of prey which he still talks about now.

2)It makes me laugh to hear so many people bleeting on about the importance of school to a child's education when they're the same people on private school threads saying that the most important education comes from the home, not from the school.

Plus what Kat2504, says. Why not target those whose child is off schhol 2 or 3 days a fortnight because they can't be arsed to get up?

It's a sure bet that these are the kids in danger of failing at school not those whose parents have taken them away the first week of July rather than the last.

This goes beyond holidays in term time. We have all become too soft in this country. the govt is trying to control every bit of our lives including how we raise our kids.

I have, and will continue, to take my DD out of school to go on holiday / visit family / have quality time with her etc. I have 3 siblings and our family travelled abroad and in the uk 2 or 3 times a year our whole school lives. In the summer we always missed the last week of term and the first week of the new scholastic year. We also took time off for our dancing and acting.

We weren't allowed to sit in front of the tv all day.
We weren't allowed to play video games.
We had to do our share in the house.
We had to earn our pocket money.
We were encouraged to develop non academic interests, read, play family games etc etc

We all finished school with at least 6 o levels.
3 of us went to uni
2 of us have lived abroad
We all speak at least 2 languages.
We have jobs we are happy in.

Each of us has had the courage to take time out from the 'safe, normal life' and do our own thing giving up our jobs and homes to travel/become musicians/start acting as a career.

Travelling and doing new things in new places with different people helped us become open minded, confident people. Though not a prerequisite, for me, it was definitely a factor

That's my tuppence worth

Just on the note on the prices in the holidays Vs the price in term time - I am sure you are all aware of the official line on this. Officially holiday companies do not increase their prices for the school holidays, they reduce them during term time. This is the line that means they justify it, any attempts at imposing limits would realistically only result in higher prices during term time - I think expecting an averaging out effect too is probably unlikely.

Maybe though that would result in less children being taken out of school during term time.

Of course I understand that buzz, little miss, inertia. There is a difference and the majority (but by no means all) are not the week family holiday kids, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a clear link (and yes I am very aware that correlation does not imply a causal relationship!) between attendance and attainment. Some of our worst offenders are the kids whose parents describe themselves as supportive and interested but also think a day off for a birthday, a long weekend here, extra few days there, is not a problem. In many cases of course it isn't but I think parents who just say 'it won't cause any harm' need to be really sure that is true for their kids. Another poster mentioned earlier that the kid losing confidence as they feel behind can be a bigger problem than the actual time missed and I think that is often true. If course parents who then put the time and effort in to ensure their kid catches up ok will have solved that problem.

Doris, kat - schools do target these parents massively but obviously that is done on a personal and private as it a very serious issue but a smallish number of parents, whereas the other group is much larger though less problematic, hence some posters and the occasional mass letter. The cost of which I doubt compares to the cost of school staff, la staff and court staff the other group takes up.