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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Husband Has been Sectioned under the mental health act.... help

103 replies

simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 22:30

My husband and I are separated, long story but he has now been sectioned under the mental health act, he has been in a psychiatric unit for over 2 months involuntary. He wants to see our children ages between 2 and 7. I am happy for contact but I do not know what is wrong with him, what medication he is on etc..... He will not allow the Drs' to speak to me and under the data protection etc they are not allowed to without his consent. I have also said that it should be in a contact centre one to one with notes taken. He has attempted suicide twice and I just don't know what to do, no one seems to want to help me. What are your views??? Am I being unreasonable for now allowing contact until I get some medical disclosure? Has anyone else any experience of this.... I am at a loss as what to do. :(

OP posts:
sleepingsowell · 02/01/2011 23:03

simply, I know it's hard but try to remain calm. When people are mentally ill, they can often be very vocal and assertive about what they want; and it's easy to feel that you are being buffeted around on a sea of chaos that is of their making.
He is perhaps currently thinking totally irrantionally and selfishly because mental illness can make you that way. Just because he is thinking that way, and demanding what he wants, does not mean it's reasonable or sensible or that you have to go along with it.
I agree with the poster who said don't expect his consultant to make the decision for you about whether it's ok for your kids to have contact with him. They won't want to put their name to any decision on that score.
If he's sectioned, he's clearly in hospital at the moment and cannot have contact unless you give it. How is he making this request at the moment? Legally? Direct to you?

CarGirl · 02/01/2011 23:04

My ex-MIL had schizophrenia, it was a nightmare as you could never depict how she was going to be, what emotionally damaging things she would say to the dc etc etc

When she was sectioned for the 6 months before she died Ex H was informed that she was aware of how she behaved but she felt entitled to behave however she wanted Shock I wonder if your ex is similar?

I def think leave it up to the courts and cafcass, presumably cafcass are involved?

Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:06

He calls the children every night and he trys to make requests through them. I supervise all the calls on loudspeaker and intervene when necessary. He has made requests through the mediator, my solicitor. However the DR have now said he is not well enough to have the mediation but he is well enough to see his children. It all doesn't make sense...

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 02/01/2011 23:06

my ex was frequently sectioned/suicide attempts and threats

i stopped contact and in court got an forensic psychiatric asessment done.....this included his MEDICAL RECORDS and details of medication,treatments,everything

GypsyMoth · 02/01/2011 23:07

think this is only way you can acess med records.

CarGirl · 02/01/2011 23:08

I would stop the phonecalls, well at least reduce the frequency.

do you dc enjoy/look forward to receiving them?

Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:08

How did your MIL die? Cafcas will only get involved when we go to court. Social services are not interested and I have called my health visitor twice left messages explaining the situation and she hasn't got back to me. I am ok at the moment I can take on the world but will have PMT next week and may well want to kill someone!!!!... any advise on that one? LOL PML.....

OP posts:
Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:11

ILoveTIFFANY thank you for your message, you can relate to my situation do you mind me asking how long did it last for, were you ever free of your ex, what contact did your childen have? thank you x

OP posts:
sleepingsowell · 02/01/2011 23:11

simply, I think you sound like you're dealing really well with it.
If he was thinking rationally then he wouldn't be needing you to intervene to avoid stress and upset to the children.
So just be strong, continue policing it as you are. Let 'them' come to you, if you know what I mean. You don't need to do too much to avoid contact - keep calm!
The very fact that he is using the kids to try to make inappropriate requests for contact would I am sure be seen as a negative indicator for his mental health at present.
Solicitor any use on this matter so far?

Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:13

I have paid my solicitor £4K and we have got no where, she is slow at getting back to me and you can't reason with the unreasonable (my ex that is not solicitor lol) I am now representing myself to save some money.

OP posts:
ReindeerBollocks · 02/01/2011 23:14

If he is not well enough to attend mediation get this in writing from the doctor (well try to) and put this before the Judge when you see him on Thurs.

The courts will want the best for the children luckily, so although your ex could be manipulating doctors and nurses as to how upset he is about not seeing the children, the Judge will only assess what is suitable for the children.

Also voice your concerns about the psych ward and any potential visits to your solicitor and see if they can mention that you would want reassurance that if the children do see their father that it will be in safe and comfortable for them to visit him, and won't cause them any distress.

I know he may have been horrid in the very recent past, but he is ill and maybe that contributed to his behaviour? Either way, I hope you have had support for everything that has happened and, continue doing what you feel is right for the children, you are NBU by my standards.

CarGirl · 02/01/2011 23:15

I don't know what MIL died of in the end, she was old and ill health, lost loads and loads of wait. She had alienated all of her 5 dc and my and ex-h both sighed with relief when it was over (we were already divorced), we'd had death threats over the years, nasty letters, solicitors letters it just went on and on and on. bullying, controllling, manipulative, abusive....

ReindeerBollocks · 02/01/2011 23:18

Didn't realise you were representing yourself. Hopefully the Courts are explaining everything properly. Sounds like you've had a hell of a time of it.

Ae the phone calls necessary? If he is making unreasonable requests, then maybe allocated calling times may be better?

GypsyMoth · 02/01/2011 23:18

my ex was messing about,not turning up for court. got into trouble as well (hitting his girlfriend and her dc) so was subject to MAPPA conditions. classed high risk to women/medium risk to children

so cafcass pushed for a section 91(14) which judge ,after much deliberating,granted. it stops ex (who psychiatrist diagnosed as having a personality disorder) making repeat applications to court,in our case,for 6 years.

so he got zero contact

quite rare i'm told,and first cafcass had seen,and first judge had passed!! but he also intimated that with his suicide attempts,he'd take the kids 'with him' one day. so i'm free,more importantly,so are the dc

Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:20

I hate my husband for what he did to me, however I want the children to see him and for him to be in their life. I have bent over backwards with phone calls, sending him photos, art work from school, letter, pics, postcards letters, gifts, Christmas cards the list goes one and continues to bad mouth me..... I know he is ill but its so hard when you have been good to someone for 13 years and they treat you so bad and continue to try to control and manipulate you......

OP posts:
pippibluestocking · 02/01/2011 23:21

Agree with all other posters - you are most definitely not being unreasonable in refusing him permission to see his children unsupervised. Good luck and stick to your guns. Wk in mental health btw so saying this on the basis of the behaviour and other details that you have described in your thread.

CarGirl · 02/01/2011 23:22

I think you need to stop facilitating...........it is highly likely he will be as awful to the dc as he was/is to you........

kissingfrogs · 02/01/2011 23:25

Agree with maths.

I know what it's like to be scared of a father and what it's like to be scared of a partners behaviour due to his mental illness. Ill or not, whether they can't help it or not, never ever put a child at risk.

tomhardyismydh · 02/01/2011 23:25

you need to contact childrens services, iam very surprised th unit has not already done this.

Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:27

Cargirl what do you mean stop facilitating. He has been abusive to the DC in the past called them fucking pricks.... before he was sectioned he took them from their beds at 4.30 in the morning and drove to legoland having had 2 hours sleep it that. Not the actions of a man who is sane.....

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 02/01/2011 23:28

my dc say now that he was so unstable that they were embarassed to be seen out with him.

we tried phonecalls but he was abusive or didnt ring at right time

do you have a mckenzie friend to support you? 'families need fathers' are very very good at supporting and advising those who self rep. dont be put off by their name,they help mums too.

Original poster
simplyexcellent · 02/01/2011 23:32

I will try families need fathers.... I have a very good friend who has offered to be my mckenzie friend, I am not sure if I would be better going into court on my own? What do you think?

OP posts:
orangeone · 02/01/2011 23:44

Just wanted to add what a nightmare situation you are in and how well you are coping.

I work in a mental health unit and with regard to your OP:

  1. There should be a child visiting policy in the unit. Ask to see this. This would normally specify that visits if agreed must be supervised in a family room away from the main ward.
2: Visits should only be agreed after a risk assessment by his treating team has been undertaken, which considers his past behaviour towards you and the children, his current mental state (not likely to be great if he has just been placed under section) and any consequent risk of harm resulting from this. Ask to see this before you agree to visits. This assessment should detail what might be required in order to undertake a visit and mitigate this risk (e.g. Staff present, where, how long, when etc...) Your ex should also have a social worker, who has clear responsibilities under the Childrens Act (1989) to place the wellbeing of your children above either your or his wants. 3: You do not have any rights to information about his medical care UNLESS their is a risk to you or your children. However you have a right to ask for this information particulary given the history you outline.

Sorry brief message but on my phone. YANBU at all. Whilst mental health units are not places where everything is strapped down (!), they are no place for young children who are likely to be distressed by the process of visiting their father who is 'not himself' due to mental illness, unless suitable appropriate support is in place and the visits are well planned and monitered. I wish you all the best, stand your ground at this stage and trust your instincts as a mother as to when and how your children can continue their relationship with their father.
HTH

Adversecamber · 03/01/2011 00:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mathanxiety · 03/01/2011 00:15

'however I want the children to see him and for him to be in their life. I have bent over backwards with phone calls, sending him photos, art work from school, letter, pics, postcards letters, gifts, Christmas cards the list goes one and continues to bad mouth me..... '

Why? Why on earth do you think it would be good for the children to have this man in their lives? Do you understand wthat as long as he has contact with the children he will have need for contact with you, and even without the MH issues, he's going to use this to jerk you around.

But back to the children -- they do not need this problem in their lives. Are you trying to make the H see reason here and change his mind about you with all the cards and allowing phone calls and artwork? It's not going to work if so.

Even someone with a mental health problem needs to understand (and can understand) that there are boundaries and limits to what sort of behaviour will be tolerated. He can be trained to treat you well and respect you by withholding privileges such as unlimited and unconditional contact with the children until he meets standards (stops making demands when talking to the children and plays nice instead, stops badmouthing you etc), not by giving and giving and being hurt in return.

If you're dreading PMT, take Vitamin B6 (100mgs) beginning soon and up until your period (not joking here; it can have a good effect)

The McKenzie Friends are a great resource and it's better to have support at least in court.

Sorry if I misled about conditions in the average unit -- my exH was in a nailed down place as I described (had been suicidal, knives used)