to not want to eat at the table with my children

[soggy14]

because their table manners are appalling?

Of course it matters MollieO, but it does become a bind when it appears to fall on deaf ears. My Ds is a 12yo grammer school boy that had impeccable table manners until a couple of years ago...we always eat at the table and I always correct him. Even my newly turned 4yo tells him off but short of beating him...

I've even considered serving him his dinner on the floor to shame him into giving it some thought!

But you have to get a balance between correcting children with bad table manners and keeping meal-times relaxed. The last thing you want to do is make meal times stressful. My eldest son (now 11) used to storm out of meals if I corrected him too much. He does have 'issues' and he certainly doesn't learn by osmosis - he needs to be specifically taught, over and over again. But I would have to focus on one thing only and mention it as gently as possible, whilst ignoring all the other things. If I had done what you did, MollieO, meal times would have been disastrous. Presumably it worked with your child, but it wouldn't have worked with mine.

Soggy YANBU, but you do have to model good behaviour. When mealtimes were more stressful with my two (honestly, they ate like savages, sometimes ), I would eat a small snack with them and then have a more relaxed proper meal later.

I may have that to look forward to!

If Ds leaves the table without asking that is the end of his meal. Of course it is easier at his age than with a teenager.

mine are fine with the "easy rules" - ie they do always ask before leaving the table etc they just can't seem to manage to eat in a refined manner.

Mine don't leave the table without asking either. That in itself isn't necessarily as good as it sounds when you are asked every 30 seconds if one of them can leave.

School has a lot to answer for. DS1 used to eat with his mouth shut naturally for which I gave myself a smug pat on the back and thought how easy this reinforcement business was. Unfortunately, that ability deserted him sometimes towards the end of the infants. I think eating with others at school is to blame - he didn't learn that at home! I am sure that the school do encourage good manners to the best of their ability but I am on his case throughout the whole meal. They simply don't have the staff to do that for every child.

And I do take him to restaurants and mine are a lot better behaved than some but that doesn't mean that I am able to relax - I still have to micro-manage their behaviour which is wearing.

I don't let mine get away with things either but as I say, I have been doing this for 10 yrs and sometimes, like the OP, I get fed up with it. It leads to bad feeling and fraught mealtimes and the occasional stomping off (mine not the children's - they aren't allowed to stomp without asking obviously.)

I would cut the OP some slack, allow her her whinge and assume that the reason this bothers her so much today is because she does care about table manners and is just having a bad day, not that she doesn't know what to do and is letting her children run feral at the table.

I assume the OP does care about table manners hence her post. It isn't easy. If Ds picked up bad manners at school I would be having a word with his teacher. At school lunches they have one teacher per table so plenty of opportunity to enforce good manners.

Good table manners are a learned behaviour, and the very best teaching is a combination of explicit instruction and great role modelling. Hence why you should eat every meal with your DCs and ensure you and every adult at table has impeccable manners and that you pick your DCs up on their omissions.

I don't think there is a short cut!

Soggy I knows its irritating to have to keep repeating yourself (also known as nagging!)but thats what you'll have to do if you want your children to have good table manners.

Maybe introduce a reward system as they improve, occasionally have finger food nights.

The only way they will get good table manners is if you teach them. This should really have been done from when they first started using a spoon and fork. My 2 are far from perfect but when they get too messy they are reminded on how to eat.

Some people don;t see it as imoortant, I do, I hate to see adults behaving like pigs at the table.

ds one can do it when is bothered ds2 is ok dd corrects her big brothers.Ds3 well he is exscused on grounds of sn though does try to use a fork but hen reverts to fingers and wih him im more worried that he eats than how he eats

If mine sprayed food from their mouths their
meal would be removed .The End

I think some DC like winding things up to get a reaction at mealtimes- whinging,whining or saying things like "yuk" or as a friends DC did when her dinner was put in front of her "vomit" .
Mine would be removed from the table-no nagging/negotiation -just removed.
Luckily mine are older now and the only problem I have is the fridge-hoovering they do!

Oh I sympathise. Mealtimes are often horrible in my house and I so want them to be nice!

Have 4 and 2yo and they just don't eat anything! Then they whine, say yuk, push plate away etc. I just want to eat a meal in peace without that crap! Then the older one starts acting stupid so the little one copies, then starts asking for juice, milk etc and once older one asks, younger one asks and once he starts he will never ever stop. If he gets the juice then he won't eat a thing!

We always eat breakfast and midday meal (usually our main meal) together. At these meals, they are not yet tired so they can cope with the adults correcting their manners.

It's hard to maintain civilised conversation when you are the only adult and kids are in a silly mood or bickering. Evening meals on school nights used to be a nightmare but now I sit down and read to them. I occasionally have to remind them to eat if the story is too exciting. It is sooo much more relaxing.

Seriously, mealtimes in our house are like coldtits first scenario - very boring for the parents but I'm sure it will pay off and at some point, probably in about 15 years or so they WILL be eating properly

Well saud thefentiger, like that in our house too!

Monkeyflippers the children are like that because you allow them to be (controversial I know, I'd better get my hard hat out now!) There are very few children who will starve themselves because they don;t like a certain food.

I was a fussy eater and my mum gave in to me and allowed it to happen, I am still not great but I force myself to try things and have improved but I know that I still miss out on a hell of a lot of stuff.

DD1 is a fab eater, DD2 is going through a stage of saying YUCK to some foods, we stay at the table until she has eaten enough then she can get down or have a treat, if she really plays up she is told to get down from the table and is given nothing else until the next meal. Slowly its working but its hard and I hate it but I refuse to give in to them.

can you start rewarding good table manners?

" it isn't just a case of copying adults as what is acceptable for an adult is not necessarily acceptable for a child and when you have children who appear unable to absorb the social mores by osmosis but need to be explicity taught everything then life is not so easy"

I cannot tell you how much I disagree with this.

I could paint a banner 20ft high and dangle it from the top of the oxo tower and bungee naked in front of it and it STILL wouldn't shout my disagreement loud enough!

My children both have autism. You have to teach them everything that most children absorb.

They have excellent table manners. Everyone comments on it. You can take them anywhere and be proud of them.

Having to actually teach them rather than sitting back and hoping they'll figure it out for themselves is not hard.

As long as you make excuses then don't expect anything to change. Oh they can't, oh it's not their fault, oh you have o teach them.

Big so what.

Teach them.

Generally I eat with DH when he gets in from work, the DC eat much earlier.

However, whilst everyone is currently at home we are sharing meals together. And yes it can become tedious repeating oneself ad infinitum.

Needanewname - so what do you suggest I do? I have very firm rules in place (that have been in place forever) about what is and isn't acceptable at the table and generally they follow them but they just won't eat. How do you suggest that I make them do so when they really don't want to?

The 4yo has to be told again and again about the rules, it just won't sink in and the 2yo . . . well he's 2. Surely there is only so much you can expect from a child at that age.

I sypathise (and assume you're joking about the not eating with them bit and letting out your frustration)

We always eat at the table, and chat to each other, but it gets a bit much if I'm nagging them about using their knife properly the whole time. - DD1 (8, so should know better) will still pick up her sausage with her fork and bite it rather than cut it if she thinks no-one is looking. I'm also fed up of reminding her to keep all 4 chair legs on the floor.

monkeyflippers
You mention juice or milk replacing food - I think this is very common in young children.
It really fills them up and becomes a bit of a habit.(and makes them whiney!)
Mine only had water- a jug placed on the table at mealtimes and bottle of water if we went out for the day .
They got most of their milk in the form of dairy-cheese,yoghurts etc and only had milk to drink at breakfast or bedtime.

Also monkeyflippers your DC are very young-4 and 2 .
I was responding earlier to OP whos DC where 10,8 and 4.
I think its pretty normal to be "hands on " at mealtimes with a 4 and 2 year old- they are the ideal age to intill good manners.

It is wearing but worth it in the end -they will turn into hulking great teenagers who stalk you as you put the shopping away !

Of course you need to keep reminding them. ds1 is nearly 7 and still needs to be reminded about not opening his mouth when chewing. he still has not great cutting skills. we just work on it continually. As should you.

I'm fine eating with DS, it's bloody DH who I don't want to eat with.
He piles up his fork with the MOST INCREDIBLE amount of food that he has to dislocate his jaw to stuff in, and then can't keep his mouth shut as there's so much in there that we then have the slappy lips.....
I have to remind him that if he takes smaller forkfuls it will be easier for him to keep his trap shut

and yes, I have thought of divorce over this issue

Oh God no! not an adult with crap manners!!! I couldn't be with an adult that has bad table manners...though my exp always spoke with a mouth full of food...which is terribly catching