To not see why 'cunt' is a worse insult than many others?

[HeathcliffMoorland]

I never hear anyone outraged at someone being called a cock/dick/scrotum...

If there's something I'm missing and someone can tell me why I'm BU, I will happily change my ways.

'Russel Brand will say cunt quite happily.'

Of course he will, as rap singers will also use similar insults. That is because society's standards have deteriorated. That is why Frankie Boyle makes jokes about disabled people and audiences laugh. Respect is being destroyed. Progressives think that they are reclaiming taboos and liberating society by using cunt. Hollywood movies are full of f words.

They will wake up in the future and wonder what happened when respect has been destroyed, when Little Britain can get away with misogynistic crude jokes about women and old people, when Boyle can laugh at disabled people. Cunt is the last bastion. If progressives liberate it, they will open Pandora's Box.

No, I'm a woman in my 40s. But I'm not a progressive. I'm a conservative.

Well in the 70s they made horrible racist, sexist and disabled jokes.

So even if comedians do swear more, and there is the odd one that is actually a cunt.

But we're still doing better in terms of respect than the 70s.

They made racist and sexist jokes in the 70s. But did they make jokes about disabled people? I can't think of any, but I may be wrong.

Also there was much less swearing and use of words like fuck and cunt in the 70s. It is much more prevalent now, and is very likely to continue that way for the foresseable future, until the pendulum swings back again.

Glad I'm not the only one to agree with the OP. Often feel like I am so far removed from the norm sometimes, so even though this isn't the majority view, I'm glad to not be standing alone.

I don't usually mind being a bit different, but it can get a little wearing after a while always having to explain/justify myself.

But why would jokes about disabled people be somehow worse than racist and sexist jokes? And why would the use of words such as fuck and cunt be any worse than any of those things?

You see fuck, in my opinion, is a fine word. It's expressive, it's cathartic, it can be rather pleasantly naughty - there's something there for everyone.

Even Cameron used the word 'twat' on radio, and apologised after a bit of uproar. He would never have used the word 'cunt' in radio. He thought nothing of 'twat' because it doesn't have the commonly accepted potency of 'cunt' in our society. The difference is in what meaning society gives the two words. Society has different rules about the use of these words, because it views one as far more insulting than the other.

OP, I don't think you're being unreasonsable to think that, but personally it's a word I wouldn't use except in company of those I knew well, and never in front of kids. (That said, I don't say 'fart' infront of children).

Thought this was an interesting debate. I remember being told by an English teacher that the word originated in very Early English and that the equivalent (which I cannot remember) was not supposed to be obscene in Chaucer's time.

Language is always changing. Expletives generally come in and out of fashion & degrees of 'taboo' - 'by our lady' became 'bloody' which was considered offensive 100 years ago and is now pretty harmless. Geography also plays its part - 'pissed' in the States means 'bored' or 'fed up' and I don't think (but may be wrong) is as rude as being 'pissed off' in British English.

WRT the whole thing of why a slang word for female genitalia is deemed more obscene than any of the many terms for the male parts is down to misogyny I think. I can understand the whole argument for 'reclaiming' the word, but haven't got the balls [so to speak!] to discuss my c... in Starbucks.

Just out of interest, I looked up the origins of the C word (online):

definition on Dictionary.com
"female intercrural foramen," or, as some 18c. writers refer to it, "the monosyllable," M.E. cunte "female genitalia," akin to O.N. kunta, from P.Gmc. kunton, of uncertain origin. Some suggest a link with L. cuneus "wedge," others to PIE base geu- "hollow place," still others to PIE gwen-, root of queen and Gk. gyne "woman." The form is similar to L. cunnus "female pudenda" (also, vulgarly, "a woman"), which is likewise of disputed origin, perhaps lit. "gash, slit," from PIE sker- "to cut," or lit. "sheath," from PIE kut-no-, from base (s)keu- "to conceal, hide." First known reference in English is said to be c.1230 Oxford or London street name Gropecuntlane, presumably a haunt of prostitutes. Avoided in public speech since 15c.; considered obscene since 17c.

But there is nothing actually offensive about swearwords apart from the bad-value society has given them and that changes over time.

Racist, sexist and jokes that are derivative about people with disabilities are always offensive because they're always genuinely saying something degrading about people who can't help that they are black/women/in a wheelchair.

I don't agree that there were less jokes about disabled people, I think there was a lot of village idiot type stuff. Whereas for example the little Britain sketches are supposed to make fun of people who assume that people in wheelchairs might be faking. Although I would question how many people get that angle of it.

re. twat - in some places that means no more than an idiot or fool - it does not have the universal power of cunt from region to region, apparently. I've heard it used almost affectionately - "oh, give over you daft twat" but DH who is from a different part of the UK nearly passed out with shock.
I hate the use of the word cunt. it is ugly, crude and makes the speaker sound thick and cheap.

I think the OP was right when she brought up vulnerability. I think jokes about disabled people are worse than racist and sexist jokes, because I think that disabled people are more vulnerable and often are not able to retaliate. I don't think that everything in life is equal. I think some things are worse than others.

Many people think that all insults are equal, and all words such as cunt, twat, pussy and fanny are equal. I don't believe that.

It's just a horrid word and anyone with an iota of intelligence should be able to express themselves without resorting to that level of uncouthness. The F word, or any other word for that matter, aren't much better.

'But there is nothing actually offensive about swearwords apart from the bad-value society has given them and that changes over time.'

all words are just sounds that we utter. But words have meanings and it is the meanings that are offensive. A foreigner hearing the word would be none the wiser, since they wouldn't understand the meaning. Society has norms and rules and standards and finds it unacceptable to use certain words in polite society. Similarly it is the meanings of racist and homophobic insult words that mean that their use is unacceptable in society.

If you liberate all swear words and insults you will get an anything goes society and the rules and norms will be broken and respect will be destroyed. The end result will be disrespect of other people and there will be far more racist and homophobic and misogynistic and disablist insults and jokes being openly used in society.

Well I don't want to get into a big debate about it Claig, but I think that your point of view could be interpreted as being rather patronising.

My personal opinion is that jokes that demean and disrespect people on the basis of their race, gender or abilities are a million times more offensive than any swear word.

And because I'm feeling exceptionally grown up this evening I'm just going to say for the record: Cunt cunt fuckity fuck. Ah... that's better.

'My personal opinion is that jokes that demean and disrespect people on the basis of their race, gender or abilities are a million times more offensive than any swear word.'

I agree with that. but I think it is a slippery slope. It is the breaking of society's rules and standards about swear words and insults that eventually results in more racist, sexist, disablist insults, since respect for society and hence all people is diminished by breaking society's taboos and rules.

I'm sorry but saying allowing swearwords would lead to the distingration of society in a slippery slope is so ridiculous I'm struggling to retaliate. Do you really honestly think that? Do the adults you know who swear all have terrible lawless children? Or do they just swear a bit?

Inifinite regress isn't a valid argument because you can't prove A leads to Z when there are 24 other letters it could stop at along the way.

We all swear more than we did 40 years ago, and yet all of the racist/sexist/disability based offenisve words I can think of are that old or older than that.

The only 'new' offensive words I can think of are based on appearances.

It's not to do with taboos over female genitals or anything like that.

If it was then twat and fanny would be as offensive as cunt.

Cunt is the worst word because everyone agrees it's the worst word.

Yes I do believe that. I try not to swear in front of my DS as it sets a bad example. I don't like movies full of expletives because they set a bad example. Of course, children copy what they hear and if it is commonplace, they think it is acceptable.

Remember the Sex Pistols on London Weekend television and how the use of one word ended the career of Bill Grundy and launched the Pistols to new heights. It was because it broke society's rules. The Pistols were "rebels". If all swear words were allowed, then they would have to find another of society's rules to break. It will be far worse than just a swear word.

'Cunt is the worst word because everyone agrees it's the worst word.'

I agree with that. Society's norm is that it is worse than twat or fanny. But the next question is as the OP asked, why is cunt worse than cock or dick etc.? I think it is because it is about female genitalia as opposed to male genitalia.

'yet all of the racist/sexist/disability based offenisve words I can think of are that old or older than that.'

of course they all existed. There's nothing new under the sun. The difference is that Pandora's Box used to be kept closed and they were used less often 40 years ago. Now Russell Brand et al. openly use them and people copy them. The box is open, the genie is out of the bottle. I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

"No Tethers...women can decide that it does not need to mean a bad thing. If they want to that is...and I want to...as do many others."

Yes, women, as in a number of them can decide that- it may or may not lead to a change in the word's meaning which would take at least a generation to embed. My point was that an individual cannot change a word's meaning.

I think it is important for society to have 'bad' words. Not because , as claig believes, it will lead to the disintegration of society, but because it performs a function. If the word 'cunt' changes its meaning over time and becomes less offensive, the only thing that will change is what it signifies. What it currently signifies will still exist and find a new signifier- perhaps a word we use already, perhaps a new one. I suggest fanjo

We will always need a word which has the power to shock and offend- a language without one is a language which cannot communicate the full spectrum of human emotion & experience. It would be an inadequate language. What that word is is somewhat arbitrary.

In fact, Sid Vicious had a good joke which made use of the word cunt.

"I've met the man in the street and he's a cunt"

Most people agree it's the worst word. But that doesn't explain why.

Claig, are the children of everyone you know who swears lawless criminals? Or are they rude according to your standards.

I'm sorry that you don't accept that slippery slope is a false argument, because that's just a fact.

"Slippery Slope Fallacy: Arguing that that one action will inevitably lead to another, which will lead to more unfavourable ones and that the latter are good reason to disallow the first, when in fact there's no definite evidence that the initial action will actually lead to the later ones. For example: "If we legalise marijuana, then we'll end up legalising LSD, then crack, and the whole country will end up addicts." Legalising marijuana doesn't necessarily lead to legalising cocaine, so it can't be used as a legitimate objection. Note how the improbability builds with each additional step in the proposed chain of events."

I see where you ate coming from tether, but I would rather another word replaced cunt, as I think it's mysoginistic that for so long the worst word has been an alternate for vagina.