To not give my children the swine flu vaccine?

[wintersnow]

I decided not to last year as I wanted to wait and see how safe it was but am reconsidering this year after several people have died. Did you give it to your children and what were your reasons to give/not give it?

bubbleymummy I'm still not sure were your coming from re herd immunity .

claig In a profession such as medicine there SHOULD be much debate and differing opinions, its healthy (excuss the pun). I know what your trying to say however I think the very vast majority of doctors and scientists support the vast majority of vaccination.

Excellent post elephantine .
Am vaccinated for H1N1 due to work- high chance of contracting it due to my job.I had flu 4 years ago and was in intensive care.I am healthy and have no riskfactors what so ever. I almost died .I have been first in the queue to get my jab since then.

Ask Dr Crippen again this year and see what he says. Better yet ask you local intensive care doctors if they have had the vaccine and will they want their pregnant wives/ daughters to have it as they see the truly sick H1N1 patients.

claig

But I haven't been persuaded by Leonie's arguments. At all. Anything that she doesn't agree with, she dismisses as corrupt or as part of some grand conspiracy to keep us paying for meds.

At the end of the day, I believe the people at the WHO to be far more qualified than Leonie, especially because they are actual people with names and qualifications that can be verified. I believe that 7+ years of med school qualifies someone far more to give an opinion than searching on the internet.

' I think the very vast majority of doctors and scientists support the vast majority of vaccination.'

I'm sure they do. But I suspect that some of them think that some vaccines are safer than others. It is no secret that many doctors and nurses refused swine flu vaccines because they thought they were unsafe.

It is through debate and questioning that safety is ensured.

I think Leonie knows what she is talking about. I bet in a one to one debate Leonie would wipe the floor with a ton of PhDs.

Don't underestimate clever individuals searching for cures and information on the internet. Have you ever seen the film "Lorenzo's Oil"? There were graduates of medical schools with 7+ and more years of experience that couldn't offer a cure. Two committed parents searched and found things that the professionals couldn't find.

Off course some are safer than others!
Take Hepatitis B vaccine: Severe allergic reactions are believed to occur about once in 1.1 million doses.

Hib vaccine side-effects: Fever over 101 degrees Fahrenheit (up to 1 out of 20 children).

What do you suggest than claig?

Oh and you never ensure safety!

I don't suggest anything. I am for freedom of information and open debate. I want to hear all sides. I want people to be free to make up their own minds. I am against those who are so convinced that they are right, that they wish to enforce vaccinations on the public.

I suggest Leonie writes a book. Let's see if her knowledge will be refuted.

But Leonie doesn't Claig. I don't think she's done very well here. She's avoided all difficult questions (either not answering or referring to conspiracy) or becomes aggressive.

It's all bells and whistles.

Do you believe in the conspiracy theory?

"I suggest Leonie writes a book. Let's see if her knowledge will be refuted."

of course it will. very easily.

You think Leonie hasn't done well. I think she is very knowledgeable and has put forward a very good case. Let others decide for themselves.

Do you think Leonie has invested all this time in learning all of this for fun? She is not paid to do this, she doesn't profit from it.

What conspiracy theory are you talking about?

Did you miss the bit where Leonie thinks that 'they' are suppressing data?

Leonie is cherrypicking what she wants in order to back up her pre-formed opinions.

This is exactly the same behaviour seen with Mbeki's governemnt in SA when they decided that HIV didn't cause AIDS, hence ART is a waste of time. Exactly the same.

'Did you miss the bit where Leonie thinks that 'they' are suppressing data?'

Do you think there have never been cases where pharmaceutical companies suppress data?

Leonie cherrypicks nothing. She asks questions and looks for solutions. just because she doesn't believe every word the experts say, doesn't mean she has pre-formed opinions. What incentive would she have to disbelieve them? She makes no money out of her beliefs, unlike some of them.

Why did Mbeki believe that? Did he want his people to die?

Claig are you leonie?

Sound familiar?
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/17/mbeki-south-africa-aids

Of course I am not Leonie. Does that mean that I can't think that she makes very good points. Is everyone who agrees with Leonie a namechanger?

article doesn't come up for me, gives me an error

claig good for you for researching and having an opinion. But I am so glad your DC is vaccinated.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/17/mbeki-south-africa-aids

He is not vaccinated for swine flu and won't be.

Haven't read the article yet, but have just seen the author, Peter Singer. Do you know who Peter Singer is and do you know what he believes in? Look him up, it will shock you. OK, will now read the article.

Fine, glad he is for everything else.

Yes, I've actually met Peter Singer