To not give my children the swine flu vaccine?

[wintersnow]

I decided not to last year as I wanted to wait and see how safe it was but am reconsidering this year after several people have died. Did you give it to your children and what were your reasons to give/not give it?

petelly, I listen to as many scientists as I can, and then draw my own conclusions, based on common sense and on the track record of their previous predictions.

I didn't believe the Chief Medical Officer and his warnings about the huge death toll from swine flu, and it turned out he was wrong last year.

I also ask questions like saggars did, why won't they give parents the single jab instead of the triple jab etc., since parents are concerned about this.

I think I have got my facts right bruffin. If you were advised to be kept in darkened rooms then perhaps that was to aid recovery? Sounds sensible enough - it was to lessen the chances of complications developing.

Measles is not a nice illness but if nursed correctly most people will recover.

claig

there is no evidence that a vaccine 'overloads' the immune system. junk science at its best

Leonie

QED

Seasonal flu is hitting in about the proportions it normally does. Swine flu is one of the viruses circulating, but is not subject to the same attention as last year as it does not seem likely anymore to cause a dangerous pandemic.

Swine flu is one of the strains in the vaccine this year, and will have had the same testing as any year - so the vaccine carries the same lack of risk that it does every year.

Swine flu is more likely to cause complications in low risk groups than other strains.

I'd have the vaccine. I am probably going too, if I had already I might not be ill now :(

There is I think 1 fatality and 13 hospitalisations in London at the moment - this is normal for this time of year.

petelly, you say you have researched vaccines. Then you will know the ingredients that make them up. The experts say that there is no such thing as vaccine overload, but many parents don't believe that. Why don't they administer 50 vaccines in one go, if there is no danger of overload?

claig

You 'listen' to scientists? And then use 'common sense' and 'past predictions' to decide if you'll believe them.

Many parents fear overload, but the experts so there is no problem. These are the same experts who told us of the likely death toll of the swine flu pandemic last year

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-402527/Fears-vaccine-overload-new-jab-meningitis.html

I don't think petelly uses google when it comes to looking for evidence based medicine. Pubmed more like. Those who don't think measles or H1N1 are dangerous are deluding themselves.

I'd say there's little common sense in UK vaccination policy.

macdoodle "I've spent all afternoon seeing some very ill children with flu (am working GP out of hours), and admitted a small baby with it! Your choice entirely, but you're a fool!"

Children aren't being offered the vaccine macdoodle - how does that make people who don't vaccinate their children against SF foolish? The choice isn't theirs unless they can pay for the vaccine.

No you haven't google roald dahl taking about his daughter who died from measles encephelitis. The Australian government used to have a page on measles stats and it has always been considered a dangerous illness

I never said I've researched vaccines. I did look into the issue prior to vaccinating my own children but based my information on systematic reviews conducted by others and my own understanding of risk and probability (as I have advanced training in epidemiology). I didn't find it necessary to examine in detail the ingredients of vaccines. Since I have no biochemical or pharmaceutical training, it wouldn't mean much to me and I don't have the hubris to think it would.

Why would parents 'believe' in immune overload if experts, who actually understand the mechanisms involved and have studied the issue, say it doesn't exist. I really don't get it.

I did actually reference a peer reviewed study - ie proper science.

petelly - Claig beleives that a strict interpretation of Platos theory of Ideal Forms presents a better picture of the reality of the world that say, relativity, that her deductions based on her intuition is as valid a data source as a peer-reviewed paper, that global warming is a consipracy to cover up plans to deal with over population (that has the same symptopms, causes and cures as global warming) for no clear gain to the conspirators (who already seem to control all the wealth and power. And that Communism was a conspiracy by Global Capital.

She is a resolutely pre-enlightenmnet, pre-rational thinker.

There is no point arguing with her - you just get sucked into a vortex of unreason and paranoid conspiracies.

petelly, I think I am right and I think you are wrong. I may well be wrong, but I don't think I am. You could be right.

I think there are many factors involved apart from health, such as big pharma, profits, politics etc. If you want to believe the advice you are given, that is ok.

I believe that aspartame is dangerous, I never touch diet drinks and try to avoid any ready meals with it in. If you believe that it is ok, then that is ok.

The prediction of mortality from swine flu was based on models predicting the course of the epidemic and the existing case-fatality rate (which was probably way too high).

It was wrong to make such predictions of gloom and doom without explaining the level of uncertainty around the prediction.

Epidemiological models are based on probability - and the best guess can often be wrong.

However, flu epidemics can cause very high fatality so probably best that we were prepared for the worst case outcome.

Elephantine, H1N1 killed fewer people last year than seasonal flu - we don't all rush out to get the seasonal flu vaccine.

There have been 2 measles deaths in the UK in the last 16 years - there have been 10s of thousands of cases of measles in the UK in that time. Because those figures aren't 'scary' enough the world wide figures are used that show that measles is still a dangerous disease in countries like Africa and India. Diarrhoea is also a big killer in those countries but we don't all panic about our children getting that in the UK.

She also has no time for the idea that predictions have a probablility assocaited with them, so everytime there is a report of say, a 30% probablility of a pandemic, she considers that the fact a pandemic doesn't occur discredits the scaintist. And by extension all science and scientists.

I know about RD's daughter. I'm not saying complications don't happen. Or that it's not very unpleasant. But I don't believe that most people suffer complications.

And I am more concerned about the possible complications of vaccinations for my children than I am about the diseases. That's the choice I've made. Based upon my mistrust of the government as I've said multiple times on this thread.

TCNY

I think you're right. :) I'm going to have it call it a day. It's all about conspiracy and paranoia, gut feelings and intuition. I can't deal with it.

LeonieDelt - Wakefield's Science hasn't been debunked because he didn't do any science. He did a case study. That is not science. It's something that suggests that there may be something interesting worth looking at.

Subsequent studies have found nothing.