An AIBU about a dog and a MIL?

[Unrulysun]

This has all the ingredients for a proper flaming but I'd like to find out what the hive mind thinks (maybe).

dd is 7 months. PIL have a very badly controlled dog - not an aggressive dog but a 'jump up, wagging tail, scratching with claws, begging for food, sitting on sofa' dog. They have brought it to our house in the past where I nearly fell over it several times while heavily pregnant and where it pooed in the hall.

Since dd was born we have asked them not to bring it up because she was so little and vulnerable and we were keen to avoid any accidents. We did some research and decided 'better safe than sorry'. They were really pissed off and fell out with dh - threatening not to come to a party we had for her etc etc but then
they calmed down once they realised we weren't going
to be bullied and left him with SIL while they visited.

SIL is away over Christmas and we are going to my dps. PILs live about 30 miles from my dps and we would normally visit on Boxing Day or they would visit us.

Spoke to dh last night and he would rather they didn't visit us - they are a bit odd and he says he would rather just see them on their own as he finds them a bit embarrassing (they are a bit embarrassing - I can see his issue, MIL treats him as if he's about 12 and will interrupt him speaking to ask if he's wearing odd socks etc - very strange). Dh would therefore like to go and see them on Boxing Day morning. BUT this means with the dog and I am worried that dd is still a little bit
small. I'm mainly worried that MIL will be holding dd and the dog will be jealous and jump up and possibly even be aggressive. We can't talk to them about it as they get ridiculously aggrieved at any suggestion that the dog might have any instincts or isn't well trained ('he's's not a dog - he's a member of the family'). There is possibly a bit of pfbitis in this but I reserve the right for that and wish that they could just understand that we are new parents and we are maybe a bit overprotective.

so WWYD? Go over there and hold onto dd for dear life? Invite them to dps another day? Lie and say we're going to Scotland? Another option I haven't thought of?

Dropdeadfred - yes, it's complicated. They will want to see dd but mainly so that they can take photos of her to show off to their friends. They don't prioritise her, it's more about them being grandparents iykwim? Like when she was born mil fell out with her mother because she said that 'she should have called me to congratulate me on being a grandmother'. All very odd.

Feel for dh because he is a brilliant dad and husband and he could do with a proper rest without all this political bollocks but seriously they are liable to just decide that THEY HAVE BEEN WRONGED at some stage and not speak to us for ten years or something so I like to try to get things right. :)

That's a shame. Although I am on the other side of the coin, I am worried about MIL jumping up and scratching DS (due next month)... because she's paranoid that he shouldn't be around my two slightly excitable but well-behaved, non-aggressive dogs, and may lunge to grab at him, causing unnecessary injury.

I am wondering what breed the dog is? Although the dog seems huge next to DD, would it really do much harm just by jumping up? I understand that it is not ideal, and I wouldn't want my dogs jumping up at my DS, but I doubt the dog jumping up would inflict any serious injury. I guess they have to get used to each other at some stage...

Anyway good luck with it all.

I am a dog lover. For me if they are too lazy to train properly they have to lump it.Sitting on sofas, begging for food ect is a way of seeing the dog doesnt know its a dog. You just concern yourself with DC and they can jog on!

Some owners don't believe that thier dog can be dangerous till after an attack. My MIL thinks her dogs don't have any hunting instincts/problems with children being higher in the pack and are treated like children. They were boucing all over my kids and even nipped my eldest whilst excited last visit - now the kids are frightened of dogs. They are free to rome anywhere in the house and I struggle to keep an eye on all of my children to protect them from the 3 dogs. They are a mix of nice but lively young dogs and an older genrally quiet rescue dog. All are quite dirty and smelly. I really don't see why my inlaws can't put the dogs outside or shut them in a room out of the way. We have decided to limit our contact and try to meet at dog free locations mid way. She has asked to visit and bring them with her but we have said no. I, my cats and kids would hate it. I just can't relax when they are around.

Ha yes it's funny that isn't it - almost exactly the opposite problem. Just goes to show...something, not quote sure what! Tbh it's only a springer spaniel so not a big dog by any standards and quite nice if jumpy - just don't want to take any chances. :)

'My MIL thinks her dogs don't have any hunting instincts/problems with children being higher in the pack and are treated like children. They were boucing all over my kids and even nipped my eldest whilst excited last visit - now the kids are frightened of dogs.' - actually ferel dogs don't form packs like wolves. They co-operate for hunting/foraging purposes but they don't have a rigid pack structure like wolves. So unless your dc are in the habit of chasing wild game on all fours along with the dogs, then I'm sure they won't have a problem where in 'the pack' your dc are.

The first time we took a baby (then 6 weeks old) to MIL's house, from the way her terrier was excitedly jumping around, I knew that he thought the parcel in my arms was one giant sausage treat for him (sigh).
MIL kept saying "Just let him sniff the baby" when I had already decided "Over my dead body."
So it's not that I don't believe in dog danger, but by the time baby was 4 months old, even the dog could see it was a small person, not a large tea for him. So I think at this point you are being PFB, OP, you gotta get over this fear and make the risk manageable.

sorry, last post was a little unfair, I should have read the most recent posts by OP better . But it would be PFB to keep putting it off, iyswim.

I couldnt stand this , ive experienced similar with various relatives and freinds over the years who insist on treating their dogs like babies and letting them behave badly.

I have a dog , and shes well behaved , yet im expected to tolerate various 8 stone dogs jumping on me ,barking at me , even being made to feel mean by the owners because i wont let their 8 stone dog sit on my lap or drink out of my cup.

And while a scratch isnt a serious injury , depending on the dogs nails it potentially can be , ive got a 4 inch scar from where my freinds dog scratched me jumping up with its super sharp talons. Had it done it to my face or eye it couldve been serious.

I think its best to start as you mean to go on , i dont have toddlers but even so i wouldnt be willing to tolerate a badly behaved dog bothering me when visiting and i certainly wouldnt have one in my house.

Doinmecleanin Quite. I get so hacked off with people who clearly actually know very little about dogs trawling out pack theory, it's such utter shite.

Skybluepearl and redflag - this is a difficult one because just as i think I've sorted it out someone posts an awful experience and I think we really shouldn't go. :(

Ragged :)

Unrulysun, no matter what anyone tells you, dogs do not suddenly attack people for no reason. The reason people think there is no reason is because they do not understand dogs very well. AA huge number of family pets are subjected to harrassment from young children on a regular basis. Because dogs are inherantly good natured, they usually put up with this, even if the child is hurting them, usually either just literally putting up with it or walking away. Sometimes they might resort to a growl in order to try and show they are not happy with the situation, but if they do, in most cases what happens is the dog is then told off for growling as people think the dog is showing aggression and are 'not having that'.

These dogs put up with years of what basically amounts to abuse until one day they suddenly 'turn', or in fact, decide enough is enough and they have to protect themselves. They have already been told off for growling, so they have no way of saying 'I don't like that' so they have no choice but to resort to a bite.

Of course, this isn't always the scenario, but it hopefully gives you an insight as to why people think dogs attack with no warning or provocation. What a dog sees as provocation, the average dog owner may not.

I would imagine if your PIL are so dedicated to their dog and take it everywhere with them that it is at the very least well socialised and well used to all sorts of different people. Obviously you should be sensible regarding children and dogs, but a dog can tell the differencxe between a rabbit and a deer at well over 100m away, I think it'll be able to tell the difference between your baby and a sausage at a few feet.

Thanks Midori - that is reassuring I was being quite Tongue in cheek with the 'mmmmmmm lunch' comment but I can see why people might be exasperated with that if they get comments like that all the time or if they've recently lost a much loved pet and people aren't being very understanding.

Lots of experience and ideas here anyway. Thanks Mumsnet. :)

My sis has a very, very young baby, we have a fairly young dog who is very lively. We are lucky that communication between us all is easy, so when we are all together sis can introduce baby to dog, we can all 'hang out' together. DP or I remove dog immediately if sis asks, we see puppy getting boisterous or if sis wants peace to breastfeed/change nappy.

I am fairly certain that our dog would never cause injury deliberately and without serious provocation, but she has scratched my neck by accident and I would never allow my nephew to be in a situation where an accident might happen.

I've always been nervous of dogs but have found that most dog owners are very considerate of that once they are aware. But it seems to me that the people who don't consider the feelings of people who may be nervous/terrified seem to have the worst behaved dogs.

Your DH needs to deal with this, he needs to explain to his parents (he can say you are being PFB if necessary) that while you all want to see doggie, doggie will have to be removed/shut away if you or baby feel uncomfortable. This is only a short visit for you, baby, them and doggie and until you all face up to it none of you will see an easy way forward.

I must add that to my post that my boys are very well behaved and calm. They don't roll around the floor chasing dogs. They sit and read books, watch films and play quietly with toys/ornaments at MIL's house. MIL can't tolerate much noise - so it's lucky they are good boys. Why my boys were nipped I have no idea. I watched the whole episode - it was unprovoked and out of the blue. Sadly I was about 5 foot away so not close enough to step in between the dog and my child. We were all just moving from one area to another and the dogs got lively all of a sudden. I don't consider them to be aggressive dogs at all so was quite shocked.

One question do have is why do dog attacks genrally seem to happen when grand parents are supervising children? I'm not sure.

The kids keep to the other side of the room away from the dogs as they are less than keen.

SkyBluePearl, what you describe sounds simply like the dogs got over excited and one started mouthing and was not being aggressive at all. If a dog meant injury to a child, make no mistake, it would happen instantly.

Most of the dog attacks in the press involve dogs tjat are poorly socialised and known to be a nuisance, or dogs where there is no child in the home and probably aren';t socialised properly. I have never seen one report of a dog attack where I haven't felt a human being is somehow to blame. (obviosuly excepting physicsal illness)

My freinds dog regularly nips her when she wont give it treats or let it drink from her cup. It trys to get on your lap , and once there it will growl in your face unless you stroke it . When you stop you get snapped at or scratched aggresiveley. It lies in doorways and growls when you try to get round it . All the while freind looks on and simpers talking to it in a baby voice. I truly hate it and will no longer visit.

Not the dogs fault as its owner has pampered to it , but i think its these types of people that make dangerous owners. They cant control them and treat them like children , something that tends to happen a lot with older people .

Then again i regularly have to tell visiters to leave my dog alone as their children think its ok to try to ride it or pull its tail . I put her away when small children come , as although she is perfectly freindly its just not fair on her.

My friend's little girl was bitten on the face by their lovely family pet (he was lovely) when she was playing quietly and her Dad was in the room.

My PIL lovely (although mad) mixed dog came flying into our bedroom (FIL was concerned we'd run out of air if the door was shut, ran over us in the double bed and jumped into DC Moses basket. I screamed, MIL didn't hear anything . After that the dog stayed in the kitchen overnight when we were staying, even though PIL said he was perfectly harmless.

My point is, you never know quite what will happen and you must trust your instincts.

All the doggie lovers will say that you are being silly and mean about the dog and it isn't aggressive, but how do they know? they haven't met the dog or seen the dog have they?

My BIL had a dog, lovely thing, ran around freely and very friendly with everyone. Until the day he sank his teeth into my leg for no reason that I could see at all. I didn't even have any bad feeling about the dog at all.

If you like dogs and still have a bad instinct about this one, trust it. That doesn't mean you can't go there, but don't let people who have never met the dog tell you there is no harm and you are being silly.

And I see that midori says that dogs do not attack for no reason. That may be true, but believe when you are being treated for a bite you don't care much for the reason. WHY they do it is far less important than the fact that they (sometimes) do.

I am a dog lover and really don't understand all the people saying you are being PFB about this.

Dogs don't need to bite to hurt a 7 month old. An excited dog that jumps up can badly scratch an adult with it's nails. Or get you in the back of the knees making your legs go out from under you. A seven month old could be trampled or scratched very easily by the most lovely natured dog.

I'd go and do all the things you've said. Sheer excitement about visitors arriving and some'thing' that's being held out of their reach combined with ILS that can't/don't control the dog sounds like a potential accident. And if their dog did scratch your DD it sounds like it could cause huge problems with your ILs- who would think you were over-reacting.

Both my mum and my MIL have dogs similar to this one who are poorly controlled and we have decided it is not worth the risk, even if it is small, of our DS getting hurt. My mum puts a muzzle on her dog when we go and my MIL has got a babygate and keeps it in the kitchen behind the gate.

My DH is badly scarred on his arm from being bitten by the family dog when he was 8 from which there was no previous sign of aggression and it thought it was playing so he is understandibly cautious.

I would be insisting the dog is kept in the kitchen for the entire visit. I wouldn't care if it whined to be honest. Bring it a present as others have said.

My MIL's dog is a spaniel, and my dad used to have them and they seem to be very jumpy, physical dogs as they are so friendly so if poorly controlled could easily knock over or scratch a little one.

My son was bitten at 11 months old by a dog like this. So no, I wouldn't risk it if you aren't comfortable. It was horrifying, albeit just a nip - my son was in my arms, dog was told to get down when it didn't want to, so it ran across the room and jumped up and nipped my son's leg. Hard. Horrendous.

I may add that I am a dog person and have one myself. I grew up with dogs, I love dogs. But some dogs see babies as competition, and if not properly disciplined and trained can take their aggression and jealousy out on a small person.

I do think breed matters here though. I'd be a lot less worried about a Cavalier King Charles than a Jack Russell, for instance.