AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

It's also interesting to see that Xenia (along the famed DM lines) also refers to 'single mothers'. As if they got themselves pregnant...

Anyway, I like your rough draft, standup. Thank you!! A small point - in the first line '... can have a (detrimental) effect on health and family relationships..' Otherwise, I like the fact that most of it's lifted from the Shelter document.

I suppose another thing that could be done is set up an online petition - people seem to notice the homeless 'ishoo' more at Christmas. Those who want to could post a link on Facebook/Twitter/wherever? Not necessarily in the name of MN, but these things can snowball amazingly well!

Whilst I think that Xenia was too outspoken what are we going to do with young girls having children with no marks? Or women who choose to have a number of children with a variety of men. Who will be paying for her choices?

I take the point that two people make a baby but these days there really is no reason to have a baby unless you choose to have one.

I am not talking about people who have fallen on hard times, or who have disabilities but I do think we need to target the feckless, the women who choose to have children with no thought as to how they are going to afford them. And yes, there are men involved in this but surely people recognise a waste of space?? Have sex - lots of it if you choose but please dont have babies when you have no visible means of support. Do not sit in Costa Coffee bragging about how you are going to have another one to get a larger house or some more money (heard this a couple of weeks ago! )

Of course it is relevant to the nation's finances. Who is paying for people who dont work and choose to have child after child.

We would liked to have had more children but decided that with us both working it wouldnt have been affordable - so we didnt.

If this young single mother scenerio is a myth it certainly isnt around here!

And that is what I see as missing - taking responsibility for your choice, not my choice, not other people's choice - YOURS!

And it really is nothing to do with the Daily Mail.

I have seen very good examples, and outcomes of shared single mother hostels where parenting skills can be easily given and shared and there is a workforce there if an individual mother is having a bad time - what's even better is that coaching and support anc be delivered for those in the hostel by people who have left and been successful in getting their lives together afterward - a nice network of supportive mums froom the same town/area can be developed too.

I think mumsnet would be better putting their input into creating one exemplar version of this, perhaps in collaboration. My idea would be to have a main core residential group and then a drop-in day version of the same thing that can be targeted at less dependent mothers to mix the social groups up. If the hostel gets the HB, and child benefit as well as say helping single mums into small amounts of work or delivered training on site (eg law courses, professional skills courses etc) then some funding could also come from the employment service - staff it with volunteers and pro-bono professionals and you have 'big society', mumsnet and single mums (and later their children all working together - I think Xenia was onto something :) :)

oh and perhaps an evil dads' visiting room (like those prison rooms with a phone..).. only joking :) in all seriousness dads could be brought in too to learn with their ex or current partners - later a 'married' wing.??

Ok its starting to sound a little like a workhouse but I am sure there is something in it..

I agree with Riven too, again there are no consequences to a man who doesnt work having a baby, he just walks away or goes to court and they agree he can pay £5 per month as he is unemployed.

I really dont understand why a women would choose to have a baby with someone like this. Although I am happily married now during my dating years of course I met the chancers, the smooth ones,and when you are young and single you can dabble with them, but please, take birth control, and dont have a baby - one of the most important decisions YOU can ever make with someone that spins you lines.

So those of you bringing up the "feckless single mother not working in order to get a council house" argument do you believe that those who are working but reliant on HB or are disabled and reliant on HB should have to live in hostels and B&B's rather than have access to housing?

Because even if there are people working the system, it is the other groups suffering more by refusing to address the issue of there being fuck all housing for those who cannot afford it.

And if you don't think it is acceptable then why bring up something which is actually fairly irrelevant to the discussion?

Rocky12 - your posts are spot on.

There will never be total agreement on the balance of carrot and stick - but one thing is for sure, the concept of people being responsible for their own wellbeing has become dangerously eroded over recent years. It's not just a HB/lone parent issue - it has seeped into every area of society. I see it with kids who fuck around at school, and ALWAYS point the finger at someone else - either someone else has provoked them/distracted them/ or the lesson is too challenging/easy/boring.... you see it with people who overspend, rack up huge credit card bills and then blame 'society' for encouraging them to spend money they haven't got.... you see it with overpaid bankers who make shit decisions and yet still expect to get bonuses and huge salaries.

Don't know what the answer is, and I'm sure there isn't an easy one, but it seems that this attitude of 'someone else will pay for my mistakes/lack of judgement' is at the root of a lot of society's problems today.

And yes, as always, the disclaimer that I know not everyone has made bad judgements, some things in life are random and tragic and can't be foreseen. But it does seem as if the balance has tipped too far, and people who take personal responsibility, and expect to life within their means, and pay their own way, have been right royally shafted.

It is not about people who've made a bad judgement. It is about people for whom there hasn't been any choice in the matter being stuck with nowhere to live.

It is not about people who've made a bad judgement. It is about people for whom there hasn't been any choice in the matter being stuck with nowhere to live.

It is not about people who've made a bad judgement. It is about people for whom there hasn't been any choice in the matter being stuck with nowhere to live.

Please tell me one of those sunk in.

"And yes, as always, the disclaimer that I know not everyone has made bad judgements, some things in life are random and tragic and can't be foreseen."

Well, that obviously obviously OBVIOUSLY didn't sink in didn't it?!!

Anyhow have put a request in to campaign for more affordable housingto MN.Have left out HB cuts as people differ in their opinions about these and not sure if they are going ahead or what.(judging from a the guardian which said there would be a vote on it in parliament)

Not sure about what to do about people who abuse the system, no one can deny it goes on. However I do feel more affordable housing would benefit us all and there is a genuine need for it.

Have requested a campaign for the following:

More affordable homes to buy
More social housing

A new festive name change ( the poster formerly kown as standup)

It is not about carrot and stick at all when you are talking about people with no choice, no alternatives.

Talking about people making bad decisions is also not the main point of this thread either, it's about vulnerable people being made homeless by ill thought out plans.

So coming in and making comments about people choosing to be supported by the state is both pointless and unhelpful. It distracts from the people who need help.

The thread is over 700 posts long, and has evolved from the OP to cover broader discussion which is highly relevant to the issue of the overspent public purse, and the cuts in spending.

We don't all need your personal permission to post according to the precise criteria which suits you.

So you think it is helpful when talking about people without homes (through no fault of their own) to come along and start complaining about those who have chosen to rely on the state?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion,I get what you are saying Violethill. I do feel like all the talk of those who abuse the system drowns out the voice of those who don't.And who could do with a bit of sympathy at the moment.

I am off this thread as I can feel a bunfight brewing .....