AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

Standup- exacvtly Dad older than welfare state

15th child of 16

Nan bedridden from young age, Grandad alkie- when he'd spent the wages they would get him cough medicine because then that ahd alcohol in and tempered his shakes and aggression (at least 5 of his kids went on to alcoholism, Dad for a time but wonderfully noe dry; know of 2 uncles dead from cirrhosis)

Dad at five used to have a barrow to take shoppinga nd coal about, no work no eat; he also stole food, they even had a dog trained to do that, and poached- hedgehog and salmon both common meals, salmon obviously poached. dad raised by older sisters, taken in to say 'final goodbye' to his sick Mum every week from when she was 40- she was 72 when she died.

Not a life any child deserves in any way. Eight to a bedroom, days without emals, working instead of infant school. Awful.

Sounds like the poster who had an abortion regrets it.. poor woman. I can't understand the reason why you'd tell everyone so publicly what you did and why unless you were still trying to justify it to yourself?? Regardless, it definitely doesn't belong on here.

Anyway, back to the point in hand, shouldn't we be campaigning for more social housing? Otherwise, we may not be too far from rioting outside no. 10. After all, what else will we do with our time on the streets?? (Yes, I know, sounds a bit sarcastic, but this could all turn into a living hell..)

A mumsnet campaign???

Why not? MN has considerable clout, and I don't think we should entirely forget about it just because there's been a stay of execution for a few months. At the very least, what about finding a way to support Shelter's voice in it all?

My personal situation is OK now, but I've got very clear memories of being on HB and how profoundly grateful I was for it. I was very busy bringing up another taxpayer single-handed, and I daresay that's actually been a pretty good long-term investment for the state. (Yes, I know, some entire families are coasting on HB, but many aren't too!!!)

Didn't live in social housing, but went with a very modest private rental. The reduction in Housing Benefit may entirely remove that option for a huge number of families in the UK, and the country doesn't have adequate social housing to soak up the resulting demand. I do agree that it's a bit mad to try to accommodate huge families in expensive areas, and in cases like that there is a need for reform. However, a general reduction could be a disaster waiting to happen!!

How does it work. Do you have to get permission from MN HQ?

Might be a good idea to start by looking properly at what Shelter are saying (in the link further up) and whether MN could say anything to add value to it?

And as for the benefits scroungers things, the 'bring back hanging' brigade, I really do hear that some people abuse the system. But until the cost of housing is more realistically in line with current wage levels, it isn't financially realistic to expect that more people will be able to bear the full cost of private housing.

Just because a few people abuse it, doesn't mean it should be stopped or drastically reduced. Lots of people really need it and do appreciate it. That's like saying 'because there are a few shit doctors in the NHS, let's sack them all.' Ridiculous.

I have just seen in the guardian that this hb cut is being voted on today.Can find no news of the result yet.Definatley start a campaign for more council housing thread. will think of wording.....

I think it would be better for mumsnet to stay away from political campaigns or they will alienate posters who aren't of the same political affiliation.

Is it political? I don't remember Labour doing a lot to increase social housing provision.It's not about which political party we want in power, its about a much needed resource.

Personally I think kids living in B&Bs,damp, run down and dangerous homes, not growing up with proper tenancy rights and security is someting people of all political persuasions should be appalled by.

i agree with a campaign although (as we keep being told,often on here!) THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT-CUTS HAVE TO BE MADE...
despite the fact that building houses would create jobs and move money into the construction industry and also the manufacturers of bathrooms fittings,pipes for roads,bricks,electricians. why not train people to be apprentices on a massive housebuilding project.
train plumbers and sparkies and tilers and plasterers...at the end of it you have a trained workforce and an asset (ie a council house) i don't see why the government can't buy the houses that are about to be repo'ed,let the families in them stay in them (where appropriate paying a middle ground rent between social housing rent and private) at the end of the period \when the mortgagee dies the house is a council house. to be re let.

There's a whole road near where my MIL lives that was bought up in order to expand the road they were on, which has never happened. So these houses are sat there boarded up and unused, when there are people crammed into B&B's and hostels.

missmehelia No I don't regret it. I have never regretted it for a second, and I justified to myself a very long time ago. There was never a big debate in my head of 'should I or shouldn't I' - it was a no-brainer for me from day one. We all hear lots of women who are living in very straitened circumstances say they want 'a better life' for their children then they had. So did I. And I knew the best way to do that, so I did it.

It was not inappropriate at that point in the thread - we had wandered away from the issue HB itself, and into a debate about single mothers, lifestyle choices, personal responsibility and planning - or lack of it. That's why I brought it up. We are not all at the mercy of fate over everything.

Let's take the serious issues like redundancy, disability, and failed businesses etc., aside for a moment. Sometimes in life, we have clearly signposted paths in front of us and we choose which one to take. If you choose the one that says 'cold, dark, spooky wood full of booby-traps' then you can't really complain too loudly if it is dark, cold, spooky and you keep landing on your arse.

Of course, sometimes you take the sensible route, and it turns dark and spooky unexpectedly. That's different.

Anyway, I'm out of this thread now as I am very busy today, but back to HB!!!

There is almost no issue in our society or for us as consumers and taxpayers that isn't political in the end. We - as a MN collective - can avoid publicly stating affiliation with any political party. An obvious and sensible stance, IMHO. However, rather than simply complain about the current plans to cut HB, we could add our voice to that of Shelter, or come up with some viable alternatives to achieve the same aims (which they are hopefully doing).

My observations of politics seem to be that if the general public have an emotionally-driven outcry thrusting bitter complaints about something, then we are patronised and kept in the dark, with lots of waffle used to 'explain' and justify decisions. I think the ony possible way we have to potentially avoid that is to come up with alternatives to HB cuts that are rational. Yes to reform, no to cuts where we already have substantial affordable housing scarcity.

Am going to start collecting facts and figures and start writing that precis. Will paste it on here first for you lot to review and edit.(may take a few days, have a sick child)

Fantastic, standup. Hope your poorly DC is better soon, illness seems rife at the moment, our eldest is nursing a bucket too!

Yes but if a lot of mumsnetters want to reduce what tax payers pay and ensure the situation of the poor is a bit worse so they are deterred from having childern they cannot support then the last thing we would want is as mumnset campaign to spend more tax payer money on improved social housing for unemployed single mothers.

By all means build rather nasty dormitory hostels adn require them to do work fare whilst their children are cared for in groups - I would support that but certainly not yet more free housing for the poor. It's the reverse that we want.

Xenia - not all people on benefits and reliant on HB/social housing are people who are choosing not to work. These same rules are affecting the disabled and other vulnerable groups.

A market rent is simply that. If interest rates might well double or triple next year then rents could double or triple as landlords grapple with the consequences of that. When there is no private rented housing for those on benefits then councils will have issues as to how to house those who cannot pay their rent and I am sure that need will be met.

Rent controls are not the anwwer however and most tax payers and the Government will not want to pay out even more to build more places. We night to change the rules on children sharing bed rooms and things like that which people who fund their own way have to manage.