AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

but eve, who do you think is benefitting from the enormous payments of housing benefits...is it the tenant or the BTL landlord...
the lack of social housing is a massive problem. so you are looking at a 3 bed council house costing say £350 a month (which is workable when one is self supporting) or a 3 bed private rent,same\similar area for £1200. now the family who live in the council home can see the benefit to working and say earning a grand a month,the person in the private rental will have to clear £1000 more to start with.
and the person who is creaming the money off is a third party ie the home-owner who's renting the house out. I agree something has to be done,but while the rents are going to have to come down are you prepared to become homeless while that happens as it's better for everyone. I think there is going to be long reaching effects to these cuts.
i bought my house,we pay our mortgage (just)so no axe to grind really,i am concerned for others in society though.

I often think 'there for the grace of God go I' when I trot out the line about picking your man more wisely standup and of course there is always an element of luck. When you love someone and plan a family together, you trust that they won't shit on you, and of course for many (my own mother included) it doesn't always work like that.

But do you know what? When I found myself PG aged 21 by a man I'd been with for years, but I knew I couldn't/wouldn't stay with for many more years, I didn't have the baby. I was slap-happy with BC - it was my own stupid fault. I have no regrets about the termination, it was completely the right thing to do under the circumstancess, but I do regret that I put an innocent child in that position in the first place. It was MY fault, MY responsibility. I could not at that point in my life provide my child with the stable family life I felt it deserved so there was only one option for me. And I NEVER (until later, when I was happily married and well off) took any chances with BC again.

That's personal responsibility for you.

No-one want to see a return to enforced abortions or adoptions. However, not everyone can or will do as I did through choice. Fair enough. But it is an undeniable fact that since, as a rich and liberal society, we have (quite rightly) accepted that a single mother should be entitled to keep her unplanned child and bring it up safely and with dignity at the expense of the state, (or at least heavily subsidised by it for a while, until she gets back on her feet) that many people have not seen that as a gift and a privilege to be treasured when in dire straits, that millions of poor women across the world with no free BC can can only dream of), but as a green light to absolve themselves and their random useless menfolk of any personal responsibility for their own family planning and the whole of their lives and finances in general.

(sorry for overlong sentence.)

Excellent post Fellatio.
Spot on.

Very thoughtful, honest post Fellatio.

Totally agree with you about the issue of personal responsibility.

(And congrats on the longest sentence ever on MN I think!)

It isn't just the ones in expensive areas and nice houses at risk of homelessness either. Just to clarify because I don't think people read my original post. I wasn't complaining about the home I have got just that the cuts are being applied unfairly.And it isn't me going to be left homeless because my reduction won't be large. I have just been bothered to get an education on the issues from the likes of shelter and not just the Sun and The Daily Mail.

I really don't think some people can be bothered to look at the issues they just want to come on and have a dig.

I think people have read it, actually standup.

Yes, there are always people who are ignorant, and their opinion is informed (or reinforced) by the gutter press - as I said a few pages back.

However, I think that cuts both ways. I don't think you can assume that its only people who disagree with YOUR view who aren't bothering to get the facts.

Sorry to hear you went through that fellatio.

oh! I do agree with you fellatio some have absolved personal responsibility and get pregnant without thought. But what do you do about it?

A welfare system that is too punitive will harm childen and those with no choice. And a good one will be open to abuse.

Terrible post Fellatio, sorry, but to start talking about abortion on a discussion about HB is unnecessary IMO

If rents were curbed then landlords wouldn't be able to make such a profit and would have to accept a reasonable rent. Some of them might be mortgated up to the hilt but that's tough then should sell in that case.

I do agree in part when Fellatio says that people should see it as a privilege being given an adequate home and enough money to live off whilst bringing up children in less than ideal circumstances. Hence saying that I wouldn't be moaning.

I felt privileged to have brought my DD up during the Labour government when they introduced tax credits and I got a little help. I thought this country was fair until this year. We all have to suffer, well the lower end of the income scale have to. It's not like they have decided to stop paying for the roof over most claimants heads.

I always think I am priviledged to live in a country where there is a decent safety net. I would just like it to stay way. Can't help thinking there is an ideological attack on the welfare state going on and the media are paving their way. Rents are ridiculous though, I accept that.

I also do understand about the lack of social housing as I live in an area that had most of it's original stock bought by tenants and now resold several times over. Some of it is on the private rental market but it will still be 30% of average rents.

The right to buy policy from that last conservative government has created the problem we have now.

"The right to buy policy from that last conservative government has created the problem we have now."

So now the conservatives are punishing others for their mistakes.

i used to do party plan and sold a certain product in the 90's. on the whole it was always the people in the council housing who seemed to buy alot and appeared to have plenty of disposable income.

I do know what you mean though Standup and I'm glad it's not affecting you, personally. I'm absolutely against all the horrible cuts and those to come, and it's affecting lots of people, us included in a big way. It's started to make me feel less than sympathetic which isn't kind I realise.

Unrepentant christmaseve. I think it is necessary and entirely relevant.

fellatio, i was in the exact same situation as you,no judgement to be made-i had my dd1 when i was 21 and was on my own.i was earning 12k a year,I had a 12week maternity leave and i bought a house 5 years later,on my own,when i was on 15k-my house cost me 51k. to buy the same now would cost 250k+ needing a salary of 70k.
things have really changed.
Childcare is now best part of a grand a month up here. It was between £10 and £15 a day when i went back to work post dd1.
Eve,why do the lower end of the income scale have to suffer when others do not. the thousands of pounds in rent is not money they get in their hand,they don't profit from it,they just have a roof over their heads.do you think the majority of people would not rather have somewhere stable and affordable to raise their children. If your husband left or you both lost your jobs (sorry don't know your specifics) what do you think you'd do-or should a special case be made for your children.

alemci,if only they'd bought less tupperware they too could be living in a lovely edwardian villa...

Not the swimming pool thing again! How daft can people be?!

"I do agree in part when Fellatio says that people should see it as a privilege being given an adequate home and enough money to live off whilst bringing up children in less than ideal circumstances. Hence saying that I wouldn't be moaning"

Oh well, in that case. I'll continue moaning. I have no adequate home, or any home at all, it is ridiculously hard to find anywhere to rent which is under LHA and where they accept LHA tenants. So I'm finding it a little difficult to understand how cutting LHA further will actually help anyone in my position?

And more people will find themselves in my position as jobs are lost and contracts are ended (due to people not being able to afford the rent). Added to that there will be less landlords willing to take on LHA tenants in case they are either on JSA for long enough to have LHA cut more, or forced from ESA onto JSA and also being stuck on JSA long term.

As I said we are all suffering being at the low end of the income scale. Cuts are being made and whilst some people will have to find a cheaper rent then I cannot see why that it's totally unreasonable. The reason it's happening is because the country gave more votes to a nasty party.

No husband here btw.

absolutely Publichair. lol

there aren't cheaper rents, or jobs. bangs head on table that's sort of most of the problem.
so the houses that are currently available will soon be 'too expensive' for people on benefits to rent,there are no jobs,and there is no social housing-now i am no genius but you clearly are as you can see how cutting money too and as a result availability of housing for poor people will mean things are etter.
where do you think they'll live.

I'm really hoping the situation is going to be that if tenants cant afford rents due to HB reduction then we will see LL reducing rent across the board.

The whole problem is that rents are extortionate and no longer in proportion to average earnings.

My rent is over £1K each month add on top of that council tax, electricity and gas and it becomes clear that although my DH earns what would be considered a healthy wage, we cant even afford a decent Christmas this year.

PublicHair, yes there are jobs and cheaper rents but you have to be prepared to move or take a job that will tide you over. Not something for ever but stop thinking that the job has to suit YOUR requirements. Dream jobs are in short supply. A close relative has been looking for a new job but wont take just anything - she wants something that suits her, her choice of hours, her location, her type of job. In the meantime she takes the benefits and has said she might not even bother going back to work and she is only 45!

If someone is on benefits and has been on them for years why on earth are they living in expensive areas. If they have been out of work for years the chances are that they are not really seriously looking so why not move them into cheaper areas. Do people with no one working need to live in London?

'In an ideal world what options would you like open to your family if you don't mind me asking? Just ignore if you do mind me asking.

The biggest thing people I know ask for is access to childcare so we can start to come off benefits and make provisions for our children.

I;ve spent all my time as a carer studying- I couldn;t get a job in Tescos after all when care for the boys needs a specialist Nanny. I am a year or so off an MA now after slogging through Access, then a degree, and the first ha;lf of a part time MA in Autism; the plan then is to finish with training as a Social Worker. DH was amde redundant a eyar ago and has since been studying for a new career (the companies is his field merged then moved, so woudln;t find work here easily) and starting his own business. He's a good man who works as hard as anyone possibly can. When he graduates he is willing to take on the brunt of childcare but we will still need some so he can go tender for contracts, etc. At that stage we will be mroe than self reliant.

We have 4 children (all conceived and born when family had a good working income- formerly OK off famillies like ours will be common with the whole reedundancy thing ATM I guess). " have Autism, one dyspraxia maybe ADD, and ds4 seems to show a few3 signs of regression but retains other non Autistic skills so not sure what's going on there- I would guess at a sensory disorder which is common in siblings with ASD. DS1 has just obtained a palce at an excellent specialist school that i think has the skills to help him become 90% independent so I am nto so scared for him any mroe. DS3 isn;t going to make that target. For him, what I would ask is that when a parent goes to social services and says we need to find alternative residence now whilst we are still alive / able to input that they have to take action. I woudl lvoe to see him in a small group setting; he could be happy there. I've worked in palces like the one I would like him to go to and know they are there, it's just having the services say yes when you need it.

We are moving in a few years anyway I suspect to maximise our work chances (depends on the schools- complicated with SEN) so won;t be dealing with the same SSD people or even the same Country (we are English living in Wales but heading back). I just hope by then we see some improvement.

And for all it sopunds as if things are awful for us, theya re not: you'd have to be a fucking loon to choose the ASD of course but after several eyars we have found friends who accept the boys, developed a social life as a result and are all moving forwards happily. We just want the chance to finish the paths we have fought so hard for and not become so impoversished that we are forced out of the running by losing the house we rent, or having to give up study. Not becuase I think we are better than tescos employees or anything- just ebcuase we have worked so hard to get this far and it is now in sight; DH in Tesco, me caring and a lifetime of part benefits just isn;t the independence we are working for.

'Do people with no one working need to live in London?

'

Are we talking about the unemployed, or wider? If you eman elderly claimants, disabled,c arers etc there would be an immense cruelty in moving people away from support netwroks whetehr London, Soutgh West or whatever.

Unemployed people who refuse to take work I lose sympathy for tbh; I have a desire to always ensure their children are not impoverished or left unsupported by society but that's really about it. But then, I envy people the choice they get when they don;t have disability etc so am a bitter old hag.

rocky.please don't attempt to condescend to me-there are temporary contracts and shift work (rolling shifts)do you think i should sell my house,and uproot dd1 from her (grammar) school in her GCSE year,tell dp to quit his job (low paid and monotonous but the only one we have between us since we both lost our lovely careers 3 years ago) do you want me to move all of us to london so i can get a job order picking on a temporary contract. If it was a permanent job order picking then not a problem-i'd do it happily.
i am looking-i have been looking,for 3 years,and applying,and getting nowhere.
i don't get JSA we get tax credits only,every penny i earn on a temp contract would be taken off us next year if i still hadn't found a job,so if earn 2k this year over a 2 month period. next year,that's classed as my income,so over the year we'd be 2k 'down' when you earn less than 20k,pay a mortgage,have 3 kids,pay full council tax and everything else 2 grand is a lot of money. i keep saying,we're working poor. i don't begrudge help to those that need it and can't see how cutting rent payments is going to do anything else than make it worse.

what punitive measures have you thought about for the joe average retired person with mortgage paid off btw-who are bleeding the nhs dry...
what about the really really rich people-what you going to do to them.