AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

I absolutely agree with taking child support via hmrc, it just becomes another deduction, no need for the hopeless csa.

I know plenty of divorced people but I don't know anybody who's husband has refused to support the children from the relationship and I am amazed that there are actually people who turn to the state as a first resort. The benefits system needs to be a safety net rather than a get out clause for sperm donors.

There are huge swathes of the country where large propertions of the adult population claim disability benefits. Some of them could work.

I personally know people who claim it who are fine.

My DP who has spina bifida has a brilliant, challenging and well paid job. He never ever feels sorry for himself. He just gets on with it. He's full of ambition. It makes me cross when I think of what he does and what others don't do.

Yes, I know it could be used to massage figures. Don't dispute that. I also know that it's paid to working disabled people too.

I had some experience in a professional capacity a few years ago of seeing first-hand the type of applications that were being made. Many of the people in question were not so disabled they couldn't work (obviously a matter of opinion but nevertheless) yet they were granted benefits.

Having said that this was a few years ago so perhaps things have tightened up since then. I know that the authorities are very keen to prosecute these days.

Cleofatra, SMA, Stand-up, and similar arguers are wonderful examples of humanity. The ideals may never be realised, but the world needs people like you.

Humanity is a wonderful aspiration but ultimately has to be paid for.

If the people who are picking up the tab feel they are in a worse situation than those they are paying for, then we have entered a dangerous situation.

Sancti I never said that 'There is no such thing as disadvantage and poverty is your own fault' quote - that was standup putting words in my mouth.

I find it tends to be the standard lazy response to anyone who refuses to patronise the poor!

Oh, and standup yes, I guess if you looked at my life now you would make the assumption that I am 'privileged, precious and entitled'
I'ts funny how appearances can be deceptive.
But if you scratch the surface there is a 'free school meals' girl underneath.

Mama I met people for whome one was too many, but there you go. I met far more people who coped wonderfully in adverse situations than did not tbh. The very few huge famillies out there either were very child centric and coped, had masses of family help or there was something wrong far beyond the level of wanting a bigger house tbh. I can think of two in partcular- and in neitehr case was it about wanitng to get more money etc but far deeper seated issues. Obviously can;t specify more than that, but things that made them unable to make rational decisions (not SN or MH based).

I do get the problems of huge famillies- dad was raised in abject poverty, 15th of 16 kids where Mum was bedridden for life and dad drank away the money. i;ve seen the damage that caused. And I have seen famillies convince themselves their house was too small, they were being cheated out of an entitlement etc (the almost amusing thing was both in same house with 40 yaers separation: dad's family in a three bed, then this family of 4 in same three bed- of course I refused to sign their application).

But I can only think of one family in all my days and various employment s/ voluntary roles who were IMO skanking the system deliberately. And even then it was Dad really- refusing to do owt due to a bad back that I knew through the grapevine had been acquired in a dubious way (small town) but Mum was carer to the ASD child so she was fairly powerless to change anything unless Dad would take over caring role, unlikely.

FN I relaised that about standup's post.

And YY to a contract- though I think the act of procreation is that, it's just that this country could better enforce it. Difficult though- too amny get outs: pack in your job, go to university, take a second job being paid cash in hand....

many years ago a potential paramour proudly showed me the cupboard full of hard cash he was getting from his extra work that he hid to avoid paying CSA. I was a bit young to understand about telling teh authorities and kid now long grown, but it was possibly the elast sexy thing I ever witnessed and the last he ever saw of me.

Oh Nelson is a girl....that explains the lack of sexy rhyming slang...

I think the rich should patronise the poor with money.. I aint rich but I gave away a ton this week to selected charities locally

The poor will always be with us but we have them in shaming numbers. Tory led govt wont alter that. (a lot of the poor dont vote) and the politician know that

Its not "the poor" who don't vote!!!! Its the uncaring!

Oh good - Gabby's here. That's any serious debate quashed then.

True Alou.

But uncaring becuase of lack of willingness to make effort, a feeling that theya re all as bad as each otehr wrt to the political parties, or a beaten down sense that nobody gives a stuff about people like 'you' anyway- that's the key I think.

That's self pitying defeatism Sancti! Motivation is the key here and that cannot be bought with money.

I have a feeling that GabbyLoggon is actually Ivanhoe without the \\\\\\

Dunno Alou, hardly apolitical LOL- though actually I don;t think that th perceived lack of sifference between aprties is self defeating: certainly whn added to the very many poeple who now state that they don;t feel they can trust any of teh existing aprties I think it is a very important factor and one I can to an extent understand: I now vote for the least worst!

Not sure about Ivan- the ///// had me mesmerised

Even the poor who do vote, strangely, tend to vote Conservative. Having never had a Politics lesson in their lives, how can they make an informed choice?

You dont need to be "taught" politics. You do have to be interested.

The conservative party always used to be the party of aspiration, not all "poor" people want to stay poor they want ways of escaping poverty which traditionally for the working class has been entrepreneurship (if thats actually a word?)

Education is the academics preferred route out of poverty but it produces people who've all been taught the same things. It takes more than education for social mobility to occur, it takes, motivation and drive which cannot be taught or bought.

What the independant education sector does seem to provide their pupils with is confidence. Confidence to deal with people from all walks of life.

PMSL @ the idea that you need a politics lesson to make an informed choice when it comes to voting.

Sounds like you're saying "If only we could educate/brainwash them then they wouldn't be so bloody minded and strangely vote tory."

I have also never had a politics lesson but I can read the paper, watch the TV, see the election ads and make up my own mind as to who I'll vote for. If I can't do that then at least I can stick my head up and take a look around at my and my family and friends circumstances and go "You know what, these Tories/labor/libdem/coalition buggers have really ballsed this up. What other options are there."

Really astonishingly arrogant to suggest that those who haven't studied politics can't make an informed decision about who to vote for.

IME the poor people I know (lots of them, my entire family for one) all vote Labour- but that's i think becuase my family are the ones who ahve worked their way to security if not affluence and consider they ahve elarned enough to understand the many pitfalls and wish to offer protection to those less lucky in terms of life and health as them.

ConstanceWearing that was an incredibly patronising and arrogant thing to say. Those stupid useless poor people can't possibly be exepcted to think for themselves and when they do, they get it wrong?

Do you know, that is EXACTLY the attitude that lost Gordon Brown the last election. Remember Mrs 'stupid bigot'?

Sorry beijiing I see you got there first! I was so incensed by that comment I couldn't read any further down the thread!

What other options are there."

Well yes the million dollar question because they have all ballsed it up, over and over again.