Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think I should make my ex now take me to court to see the kids after recieving this text from him..

106 replies

Ladyanonymous · 14/12/2010 19:16

Ex asked me a week ago if he could see the kids boxing day from 2pm I told him if he wanted to see them he would need to pick them up in the monring as I had plans (picking up my partners kids from airport and others 150 miles away need collecting). He refused to comprimise so I said fine don't bother having them then. He will not see them at all during the holidays. Its his weekend to have them NYE w/e although we "take it in turns" Hmm on NYE so he has told me he'll be picking them up on the Saturday rather than the Friday (hasn't stated a time) and has told me he won't be having them on the Sunday night and Bank Holiday Monday instead either.

Kids are upset about not seeing him so I asked if he could have them from 12 noon as a comprimise - he has flat refused and has said if I want him to have them next year on boxing day I'll need to let him know now Hmm.

I said fine you'll need to have them NYE then as that is your agreed access night, and theres no guarentee you're not going to dick me about next year anyway and fufill your part of the bargain.

I've said they really want to see you so you either need to have them boxing day or have them the extra night new years eve w/e as we would like to go away. He replied "As I have already said I am away for xmas (he hasn't said that at all - and hes told the kids hes staying at home) and it is too late to change my plans. As for New Year I am away as it is not my year to have the kids. If you drop them on my doorstep you will be abandoning them and my neighbours will phone the police. If you choose not to be there on the Sunday when I drop them back then I will have to phone social services (I work for Childrens Services so am aware this is bollocks) and inform them that you have abandoned them as you are not home for the kids. Now stop texting me, if you send me ONE more text I won't bother picking them up from school tomorrow."

AIBU to want to go round there and rip his fucking head off kill him or now just deny him access.

Either way the kids miss out Sad

OP posts:
MummieHunnie · 15/12/2010 01:39

You have to be very carefull if you are a full time working Mum and your dp is the full time carer of your children when you split up it can definatly go against you if you have disagreements regarding the children!

LittlePushka · 15/12/2010 01:52

Very personal opinion here because I do feel that YABU ..a wee bit, anyhow....If it were my kids who wanted to see their Dad and they would miss out just because he was being a PITA, then I would prefer to give the kids the contact they obviously want, despite it being inconvenient for me and convenient for him.

Make it happen...for them. Put their needs first, above all else. Smile

amberleaf · 15/12/2010 01:58

Sounds like you both need to grow up and stop playing silly tit for tat games.

.....AND SERIOUSLY...STOP RUNNING AROUND AFTER YOUR PARTNERS CHILDREN!

Im actually flabbergasted that you are f@cking up your childrens chrsitmas contact with their dad so you can collect your DPs children for THEIR contact!!!

tryingtoleave · 15/12/2010 02:29

There has been a presumption in favour of shared (50-50) care here (in Australia)for a few years. DS's 4 yo best friend spends half the week with each parent. He seems very well-adjusted. And there are advantages for both parents - mum gets a break and dad stays in contact with the kids. But there can be problems and I've heard of fathers who only take the kids because they want to avoid paying maintenance.

nooka · 15/12/2010 02:34

That's bit bit of a sweeping statement there about 50:50 care MummieHunnie. It can work very well if both parents want it to, with no reason for children to feel they have no home (when dh and I did it my children told their friends they had two homes with a fair degree of pride). I know there is a fair body of evidence to say that there are significant effects on children who don't have any contact with a parent. I've not seen any that show shared care causes any harm (not to say that it's an easy solution mind, or without problems).

perfectstorm · 15/12/2010 03:33

"I've said this before: All responsibility, no rights is what mothers get"

Utter cobblers. You can't force ANY parent, male or female, to act as one if they refuse. Sad, but true - how could you? And how would such enforced contact be good for the child, anyway? And any parent who wants contact with their child is, and should be, able to enforce that if the other parent is blocking it without bloody good reason. It is not usually one and the same parent doing both (I accept some are just being arses, but others actually love their children and just want to see them).

A dear friend worked freelance and shared care of the toddler DD. Ex took kid in midnight flit with a new bloke nobody knew about, and friend had to go via solicitors and Lord knows what to establish where they even were. Then had to mediate, because you do before you can hit court unless you want the judge to go Hmm, even when you know one side is using it purely as a delaying tactic. Then first court app't the ex had to be lent on to agree to any contact at all, and was only prevailed upon because the judge applied massive pressure. She offered a few hours weekly in a sodding contact centre. The alternative was a prelim. contact hearing which might have guaranteed more contact but wouldn't happen for another 4 months and would cost yet more money (friend not eligible for legal aid. This whole thing has cost him £££££). There were excuses at least half the contact sessions (illness, holidays, traffic delays) cutting into the time. By the time it was heard in full, he'd hardly seen his child for the best part of a year and he was given every other w/e and 1 weeknight. But she is playing silly buggers about keeping to those now, so back to court he is having to go, and he knows full well that only when a judge threatens to flip residence will she abide by the court order. This is a guy who was a fully shared-care parent, but due to her having sole care for the almost-year run-up to a court date, he's now week-end dad, without even getting many of his on-paper weekends.

Some people are arseholes and use their kids as weapons/treat them as possessions. Gender doesn't dictate that. We always knew his ex was vile, never understood how someone so lovely could be with such a cow, but he used to go on about her tough childhood as if that explained her being consistently nasty to him. And you can't sit a grown adult down and say "this wo/man is poison, do not have kids with him/her".

I may add that my father is a total creep and behaved appallingly to my mother (and all his kids, and my stepmothers, plural) so I understand your anger. But women are just as capable of treating their kids like dirt when wanting to hurt an ex, and in point of fact the adult with possession of the child in the run-up to a court case has almost all the cards, because the court usually sticks to the status quo. Just as many men are primary earners and have a lot of power there, the kids are, sadly, a source of power and many women do use them as such. Denying that is as pointless as denying a lot of fathers are crap and drop their poor kids post-split.

OP I think you're getting an unfairly hard time. I think your ex sounds awful. But sadly I think your kids need you to manage his awfulness and bend over backwards, as long as you can bear to, at least until they're old enough to work out what a waste of space he is for themselves. Because they need to at least know their father is part of their lives and cares for them to an extent. Is it possible that you suggest to ex that you communicate via email instead of phone/text? That way you can perhaps be a bit calmer, both of you... and it will also be clearer to any court (should it ever reach that point) who is messing things around, with a consistent logged record.

tingletangle · 15/12/2010 05:29

My dh is a sahd and therefore my dd spends much more time with him than me. If she were his biological child I see it as quite right that she would live with him if we split.

Truckulent · 15/12/2010 07:19

Santasakura wrote:

'yes, sorry for going off topic. Mothers are given the kids more often because they were the primary carer. that has nothing whatsoever to do with rights IYSWIM. That's "in the best interest of the children"
with the recent trend for SAHDs, I reckon a lot of women are going to lose their children in the next 10 years or so.'

Women aren't given the children and Women aren't going to lose their children.

isn't it the road to equality if men become main child carers as well or share care 50/50?

diddl · 15/12/2010 07:26

"Im actually flabbergasted that you are f@cking up your childrens chrsitmas contact with their dad so you can collect your DPs children for THEIR contact!!!"

I agree with that.

needafootmassage · 15/12/2010 07:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

diddl · 15/12/2010 08:41

But isn´t the point that the children would like to see him?

MummieHunnie · 15/12/2010 09:02

Nooka, please read properly, you may want to rethink your response to me then, I discussed that SOME people feel that, and the people who have discussed it with me have looked into it in great depth, including research which they believe shows damage to children's mental health and feelings of belonging! It is not my opinion, I am not educated enough on the subject to have an opinion on it, I was discussing others opinions on that part of the subject, so be very carefull when you say I am making a sweeping statement infuture!

DilysPrice · 15/12/2010 09:02

I like the sound of whoever suggested mediation. Your ex is clearly a twat, but it's unlikely that he wakes up in the morning thinking "I am a twat who doesn't love my kids and will make them miserable".
He has probably constructed a narrative in which you are a bitch and your actions fully justify his behaviour. NB that I am absolutely not saying that it really is your fault; if you were Maria von Trapp he'd probably behave the same way and find a reason it was all your fault.

I'm not speaking from experience, but maybe mediation might help him to reconcile his actions with his self-image (ie not behave like such a twat) and set up some solid rules to give him less room for self-deception. Maybe some mners with experience can come and tell me I'm being naive here.

diddl · 15/12/2010 09:09

From the ex´s pov-and yes, he sounds a twat, I can see why he would be pissed off at his children not being there when he wants to collect as OP is busy fetching her partner´s children.

He says to can´t collect earlier, so OP says well you can´t have them then.

Can he collect later of the day before?

Can they stay with someone whilst OP does the ariport run?

Is there no comprmise at all?

MummieHunnie · 15/12/2010 09:12

Dilys, you probably have his take on things right x

I went to mediation, my ex used it for his own ends, he is one of the rare sorts who actually does not care about his children's needs and with that sort you are wasting your time with legal proceedings, and I speak from experience, if they don't want to know, the kids really are better off it you leave it, as they get dragged into a lot of pain otherwise with courts imho! If a man is so selfish that he can't think of his kids needs when contact is organised, he is not going to think of their need when they are with him, well that is my experience with my ex!

I shouldn't matter what op is doing that has caused grief with the ex not having the children when it was agreed between them and he is changing plans, she could have been working or going to a day spa, he changed the plans! I have to say it is strange that op's partner or her partners ex are using her free time for what should be her partnes responsibility not hers,maybe there is a general theme going on of people using op and op not standing up for herself!

Niceguy2 · 15/12/2010 09:20

Personally I think you are both about as bad as each other. I think you both need your heads knocking together and the only losers here are the kids.

theevildead2 · 15/12/2010 09:34

Not anything helpful to add.. Sorry but what a big fat stupid cunt he is Angry

HollyTwat · 15/12/2010 09:39

I think mediation can work for some people.

Depends on what your ex's motives are for being a twat. My ex used mediation to go over things I'd said 7 year previously, he seemed to want to tell someone his side and for that person to have a go at me.

My ex has used the whole sitation as a means to have control over my life. All the court cases etc are not about actually seeing the children at all. He wasn't granted overnight contact but I have let overnight contact happen when the children have been happy to go.

But, now that he can have them, he's now saying he'll have them if he can fit it in with what he's doing (he doesn't work btw).

So, now that overnight contact is ad-hoc he gets the best of all worlds. He has no responsibility, no commitment, he doesn't pay anything as he's unemployed. I can never plan to do anything unless I pay for childcare. Then he can offer to 'babysit' for me and appear to be very helpful.

I have stopped trying to get my point across to him, stopped fighting it. If the boys want to see him then that's fine with me, as long as they come back happy and say they've enjoyed the contact that is all I care about.
I have given up on him ever being an equal parent because that's not what he really wants to be.

I can see that the laws are there to protect the nrp where the rp is withholding contact for no good reason, and I've met plenty of mums that do just that. But, like most laws, it doesn't take into account another side wherethe nrp is only going through the motions to 'appear' in a certain way or to reduce maintenance.

My ex gets legal aid, he can take me to court whenever he likes. He will ask again for overnight contact at the next review hearing, but if he gets it he'll spent every weekend changing it or cancelling if he thinks I have made plans.

I don't know of anyone who has come out of the divorce or family court process feeling like they've been fairly treated. Whilst Cafcass were excellent in my case, they listened to the children and agreed that supervised contact was appropriate at that time, I know they aren't always that good.

In my case, the more I offer contact to him the more he backs off and says he's busy.

granted · 15/12/2010 09:43

I feel really sorry for the kids.

OK., your ex is deliberately annoying.
OK, he's using the kids to get back at you for old arguments.

But that's not their fault!

Just because your ex is being petty and childish, doesn't mean you have to be the same. You and your ex are not the children, your childen are, and they deserve at least one parent wo puts their needs first, above 'winning' some pointless argument with their ex. If it's not going to be your ex who acts like the grown-up, can it please be you? Don't take it out on your kids - it matters to them that they see their dad more than that they're passengers on a trip to pick up their step-siblings, surely?

classydiva · 15/12/2010 09:45

I would not deny access, to do that means the children suffer, and the children are priority.

theevildead2 · 15/12/2010 09:49

If the OP Starts dropping everything in her life when her EX dictates now she will have a hard next 10 years I think. He only has them a couple days a week form the sounds of it.. It can't be that hard for him to go ahead with what is arranged and sort someone picking up the kids.

knitpicker · 15/12/2010 09:51

Hollytwat - if I ever get divorced you can represent me. You talk a lot of sense

HollyTwat · 15/12/2010 10:13

I always wanted to be a solicitor knitpicker!

You know what changed things for me is when I read an article about controlling men. The realisation that my ex was never going to stop his behaviour, because it was about control. He was never going to get the control he wanted, so it would never really stop. So the only thing you can do is change your reaction to it.

Take the wind out of his sails OP, just smile and say OK. Even if you want to shout and scream, and you are entitled to do so. You might find he stops because it's not fun any more. I don't answer emotive texts either, I just IGNORE.

santasakura · 15/12/2010 10:14

Truckulent

But I'm not talking about SAHDs, not at all. They have clearly pulled their weight and that's a different kettle of fish entirely. But this is a gendered problem, because you do often find after divorce that it's the dad who ends up losing interest in the kids, rarely the mother (although, when the mother loses interest or abandons the kids society regards her as a pariah- and I do also think a mother not wanting to see her kids is pretty bad as well)

We really do need less of a patriarchal set up at court, where you get these men who (in their minds) believe they've done 50% of the childcare because they've read a few bed-time stories (like Louis de Bernieres) , and end up using the kids as pawns to get at the mother. Or the situation where dads can't be forced to care for their kids, but the mother can be forced to hand them over (even if he has been abusive)

santasakura · 15/12/2010 10:20

yes, hollytwat, I heard that if a father gets shared care he doesn't have to pay maintenance, or as much maintenance...

Swipe left for the next trending thread