to think that dragging a disabled man out of his wheelchair is appalling behaviour?

[lowrib]

Protester Jody McIntyre - who has cerebral palsy - being pulled from his wheelchair onto the road by police at the recent protest.

.

Disgusting behaviour.

Klaus, you seem to be missing the point that the public should be able to feel confident that the police will behave better than the protestors because it is the job of the police to uphold the law.

This 'both sides are as bad as each other' perspective is irrelevant.

I come from a background of "passive resistance" and I have seen police shoot people, destroy their homes and drag political activists out of their homes at dawn. These people committed no crime other than expose the violence and wrongness of the state.

What can we do if we cannot protest? Turn to terrorism or hand our lives over to people who damage our lives and use state sanctioned violence.

There is right and there is wrong. It is something that we on mumsnet get het up about when it comes to teaching our children. Pulling someone from a wheelchair is wrong. Killing someone on their way home from work is wrong. Why, because you wear a uniform and have the back up of politicians is it ok.

I wa referring to the aggression in the heat of the moment Milly. I cannot see things improving with future demos though sadly. If in an ideal world the hardcore trouble makers (on both side) were removed would the Demos have the same impact? And would they be orderly and peaceful protest I would like to hope so because there were a lot of good people marching out there.

Dione are you from NI? Sounds very sad

Klaus - but the police should be above that as much as possible. They are working. Like I said in my earlier post, I have seen the police antagonising protesters in the past and I think they sometimes use the merest whiff of violence to unleash aggression.

I haven't been on a demo since I became a parent but kettling protesters is not a way to endear yourself to them, quite apart from dragging people out of their wheelchairs.

But at the end of the day we need an effective Police force otherwise heaven forbid, armed vigilantes patrolling our streets. This is an age old problem but I think we have made fair strides and would like to think our country is still a lot fairer and more open than others. Look at France for instance.

Great. Since I'm a terrorist and want to blow the fucking heads off all of you all I'll have to do for your approval is sit in a fucking wheelchair. .

Shock fucking horror the police did their job.

Gasp oh shock and how bad is it cos the person was in a wheelchair! No one in a wheelchair has EVER hurt anyone and should be exempt from all searches.

FFS anyone who is protesting in a potentially violent situation may well be searched IRRESPECTIVE of their ability/disability/race/colour/religion/social status/bank balance/tampon size/condom size/breast size.

Would you trust your PFB with someone just because they are in some minority or other? Or would you treat them the same as everyone else?

Also can someone tell me as I had a baby around that time so probably wasn't noticing much were there violent demos when Tuition fees were introduced in 2003/04? I know this is off the point and should be on another thread but was just wondering?

Klaus, no, I don't think there will be an improvement in future demonstrations. It is simply part of demonstrating that not everyone will behave peacefully; it always has been. I don't see why that should undermine the behaviour of the rest of the demonstrators, anymore than I should be blamed for having a drink on a Friday night just because some people will get into drunken Friday night brawls.

FCM, we don't treat everyone the same; different people have different needs and legally those different needs should be taken into account, even when someone breaks the law.

All I could see was some police searching and removing someone in a wheelchair and loads of people swearing and causing section 5s. All those using the word "fucking" should really have been arrested.

I use a wheelchair. On the rare occasions I get out and do much, I expect to be subject to the law, including being searched where the law requires (hasn't yet), or arrested where the law requires (also hasn't yet).

I don't expect to be tipped onto the road...

FCM No one has a problem with him being moved, just with the method of doing so. Anyone with any common sense can see that one person dragging someone who probably doesn't have use of their legs across the ground is not a good way to do things. If two officers had lifted him and carried him between them there wouldn't be such an outcry.

Yes different people do have different needs and should be treated as such. Essentially, they shoudl all be treated the same.

EG if someone is going to fly on an aeroplane they should be scanned/searched and so should their baggage. THEREFORE each person should walk through the scanner to be checked along with their hand baggage. Luggage will be checked separately.

SO should someone in a wheelchair be exempt as they can't walk through the scanner or should they be checked/searched to the same level but in a way taking in to account their circumstances?

I'm not defending the officers in this case because I have no idea what the individual concerned did before or after the footage.

It just annoys me when everyone jumps on the bandwagon because it's the POLICE. FFS give them a break. They are human and have a job to do!

FCM Not sure what you are arguing there. Of course they should be searched, but with allowances made, eg. not attempting to make them stand, or trying to get them to crawl.

But that isn't the conversation here. The conversation is, is it ok to drag someone, who is unable to stand, out of their wheelchair and across the ground. Rather than moving their wheelchair, or finding a safer way to move them?

FCM, they should receive the same level of check but in a manner appropriate to their circumstances.

Clearly at 0:30 the man is being dragged on the road by police officers and is not in his wheel chair. You must be blind if you cannot see that. Dragging someone with cerebral palsy along a road is obviously not equal to dragging an able bodied person, as the able bodied person would be able to avoid injury by supporting their own weight or moving more vulnerable parts of their body away from the road.

The police did not even know what the person's disability was; they could, for example, have an unstable spine and have suffered serious long term injuries from being dragged.

Nobody is suggesting that a wheelchair user should not have been moved. It is simply that they should have been moved in their wheelchair.

newwave Mon 13-Dec-10 22:39:26
No suprise to me at all, a good few of the Police are just thugs in uniforms

How fucking dare the police make law abiding citizens feel like that.x1000

The way the police deal with the crowds has a bearing on the outcome, and there's a lot of truth in the saying "there's never a riot without the riot police" IME.

Why is it always the fault of the police? No one made them be there! Oh and Hillsborough? Bradford race riots? Think the Police saved lives didn't cause the riots...

MillyR I thought that too about his spine and neeck it mad me wince to see it.

Can any of you tell me what was said before he was removed from his chair?

He didn't say anything; he shook his head. Cerebral palsy includes issues with speech as the muscles used for speech are involved.

Prior to that video starting; can anyone tell me what happened?

FCM I think unfortunately the Police and football stadium officials made some very bad decisions at Hillsborough. What they did with the Liverpool fans was an early form of kettling. The intention was to keep rival fans as far apart as they could . But the best intentions were foiled by bad leadership and not reacting fast enough. But you are right they did help save a lot of lives too that day.

Does that really change the fact that it wasn't the best thing to do FCM?

What happened in what sense FCM?