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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be concerned about the personal hygiene of my friend and her baby?

76 replies

taintedsnow · 11/12/2010 12:22

Background is that I've known this friend for about 10 years, but we have become closer friends in the past 18 months. She is a lovely person, sweethearted, kind and very loyal.

Problem is, she has appauling personal hygiene. It is bad enough that I am beginning to not want her in my house. I feel terrible about even feeling that way because she's such a nice person and I consider her a close friend, but the smell is unbearable. I find myself holding my breath if she walks past me. It is a combination of body odour and dirt. I don't believe she washes her clothes very often if at all tbh.

The same thing seems to be happening with her DS. He is a baby and she claims to be bathing him nightly but he always has a certain scent to him and it isn't nice. It's not a pooey smell, it's a definite unwashed smell. I can't work out whether it's coming from his clothes (which never look clean) or from being held by his mum IYSWIM.

Their home is quite dirty as well. I don't think it gets cleaned and smells very bad also. I limit the amount of time I spend in there and do not take DN with me when I go. There is cat poo on the floor and dirty nappies strewn everywhere, for example.

What can I do? I feel awful to be even talking about this, but the smell my friend brings in with her when she comes to my house is getting quite unbearable. My DN is not a huggy child with other people, so it's not such an issue with him, but I know she'll want to hold my baby and she's so lovely and know she'll make a great 'aunt' if not for these issues.

How do I handle this? I can't bear the idea of hurting her feelings by telling her how bad she smells, but for her sake as much as anyone else's, it's not in my nature to let things deteriorate further.

OP posts:

HystericalMe · 11/12/2010 15:39

Maybe it needs to be more of a give and take thing too, so she doesn't feel at the receiving end of your charity.

So, you could ask her to come round and help mind the kids while you do some cleaning in the kitchen. Those how clean are your house progs used to really inspire me to clean my house.

Then you could do the same for her.

Start gently.

HystericalMe · 11/12/2010 16:03

lilyliz · 11/12/2010 16:39

I have a DN who could be your friend,she is so laid back she is horizontal,house a tip her and kids a mess,never irons,I think the only thing she does is dust and cram junk food down the kids throats.Nothing has got through to her so she is left to it but seldom gets a visit from any of us as we just can't stand her minging ways.

Kirk1 · 11/12/2010 16:55

I think you need to tell your friend, bluntly, that if a social worker came into her house she would lose her child. From the sounds of it the first thing they would do if you involve SS would be to ask her if there is anywhere the child could go until the house is of an acceptable standard. They won't tell her what the acceptable standard is, but they will expect her to clean to this unstated standard.

Also, don't expect a huge amount of help from them, as they simply don't have the resources for useful help. (they will offer plenty of patronising and unhelpful people to point out that your friend has a filthy house, but not anyone who can help her usefully keep clean)

If she doesn't believe you you may have to prove it to her. But do make it a last resort contacting SS if you can.

ChippingIn · 11/12/2010 17:00

Start with what RevoltingPeasant said: (I took out the 'for ages' bit though and added in the '& you'!)

'Look, I have this thing I need to say to you and I've been worrying about how to say it. I'm really scared you'll be angry, and I hope not because I don't want to lose you as a friend -- you mean so much to me. But, I am concerned that the hygiene in your house is bad for you & your baby...'

Followed by what LeChat said:

'I am telling you this because you are my friend and I really like you. You are kind and loyal. I would want you to be honest with me if it was the other way round. I understand you may feel hurt or upset, but I want to help in any way I can. Your house is not clean enough, you need to wash your clothes more often and take a shower and wash your hair every day. You need to wear clean clothes. The baby needs clean clothes every day. You need to wash the baby every day. You need to re-home the cat if you can't clean up after it properly. Let me help you.

Then hopefully you can both talk about it.

Do not go armed with a truck load of cleaning stuff and try to do it there and then, she will need some processing time.

Good Luck!!

[Lilyliz - frankly you just sound like a judgemental cow and not the least bit concerned or helpful]

Original poster

taintedsnow · 11/12/2010 17:03

Sorry for being slow in responding, you have all been very kind in advising me how to deal with this. I am doing DN's tea at the moment, but will try to get back on when I can to respond in more detail. :)

OP posts:

melezka · 11/12/2010 17:07

For me ChippingIn has integrated all the best advice in this thread.

CheekyLittleStocking · 11/12/2010 17:50

What does DN stand for?

Lets us know how you get on with friend

architien · 11/12/2010 18:13

I think it'd be good to insist she stays with you for a day or two. Maybe she needs to see how good habits lead to a nicer life, maybe she has an issue she's having difficulties working through (domestic violence for example). Just a thought. As a foster parent myself I know that this sort of intensive warm support can knock a deep seated destructive behaviour on the head for a child might work with your friend too.

ChippingIn · 11/12/2010 18:23

Dear Nephew (or niece, but in this case Nephew)

mamatomany · 11/12/2010 18:27

Can you babysit the boy and get him in the bath and wash his clothes, ideally by hand to see what colour the water is on both occassions and make your mind up from that if this needs more help than you can offer.
The trouble is the Hv will say clear this up, as will a social worker but they won't help.

redflag · 11/12/2010 18:48

It sounds to me like she has depression. You are being a good friend by showing concern, it may be hard, but i think you should talk to her about it.

monkeyflippers · 11/12/2010 18:55

My brother is a bit like this as well. I don't think he washes very often, his hair os usually greasy and his always smells a bit musty. What do I do about that?

Something of the comments, like ChippingIn's are a really good way to put it but don't think I could.

MumNWLondon · 11/12/2010 19:21

I agree with the other posters, if she is a good friend you have to say something (as tactful as possible), maybe she does have depression. Dirty nappies strewn everywhere is so unnecessary how hard is it to put them in a nappy sack/dustbin when you take them off.

In the respect of the HV I think you could probably find out with a few phone calls, eg call a doctor's surgery near where she lives and ask for the number.

raindroprhyme · 11/12/2010 20:32

I would be really blunt, just explain you have been concerned about it for a long time and when you have helped her clean it hasn't made a difference long term. You are concerned for her son and the impact it is goign to have on him.

SS can help they can get someone in to support her to set up routines that will help keep on top of things. Sometimes people just don't know where to start and having an outsider come in can be the thing that kick starts a change. I think the fact it is outsider helps too cos they are not personally invested in the person so can be really truthfull about how minging it is.
Having social work involovement is not a bad thing.

I think you also have to reassure her that you love her and think she is a lovely person and a treasured friend and you want the best for her and her son.

CornflowerB · 11/12/2010 20:58

Sorry if this seems trivial in the context, but she probably doesn't actually need to wash her hair every day.
I think there has been a lot of great advice, but to go from where she is now to the list of washing and cleaning that you are recommending is a big leap, so you might need to set the standard a little lower than the ideal.

OP you are a very kind person to have stuck with her and want to help her - lots of people would have just dumped her.

libelulle · 11/12/2010 21:16

I agree cornflower. She needs to tackle the most pressing health hazards and hygiene concerns that any reasonable person would find unacceptable. But some of the advice onthis thread goes way beyond this. I
might horrify some of you as I don't iron anything, don't wash my hair every day and only give dcs a bath twice a week. But no one I can assure you would look at my house or my children and think I need help from social services! Op needs to identify the essentials that need tackling, not try to hold her to unattainable and unrealistic standards.

hairyfairylights · 11/12/2010 22:03

If you are going to tackle it yourself, hints don't work with people who do not understand or value hygeine. You have to be blunt but kind.

hairyfairylights · 11/12/2010 22:03

If you are going to tackle it yourself, hints don't work with people who do not understand or value hygeine. You have to be blunt but kind.

hairyfairylights · 11/12/2010 22:06

I have done this in the past. The "I'm saying this because I am your friend" is good . And saying " most people bath or shower several times a week" and " you need to wear clean clothes every other day but underwear every day" also worked.

TurkeyMartini · 11/12/2010 23:24

I really like RevoltingPeasant's and ChippingIn's suggestions about how to approach it.

I wish you luck, OP. It's a very good thing to try to do. How old is the baby? Could you make the point to her that when he starts to crawl or cruise/walk, these concerns will be even more pressing? Might help to motivate/get her on side?

ChippingIn · 12/12/2010 13:22

Are you feeling more able to do this now?

Onetoomanycornettos · 12/12/2010 14:12

For everyone saying that the child could be taken away by SS for having a dirty tip-like house, I wouldn't be too sure. Yes, if it's a sign of greater neglect or abuse, but I have a friend/aquaintance whose house is practically uninhabitable, with 10 cats roaming around (yes, it does stink of poo), junk everywhere including outside (panes of glass, wood stacked up). They were reported to SS by neighbours for a couple of things, but when investigated, they just went away, satisfied that although the place was not how most people would keep their house, it wasn't endangering the children who were happy and healthy. It's not my way, and if you can say something to her, all the better, but really, SS have got better things to do than go round checking if children are a bit minging.

YummmyMummy · 12/12/2010 15:19

I agree with some others that going to SS would actually make a you a really brave and loyal friend. Perhaps a blunt but kind conversation would be wise first to see if it would give her a bit of a wake up call but if nothing changes then go ahead with contacting them. I think the Christmas present might be a bit pointless, past hints haven't worked and tbh it'll probably just go straight over her head. You're in a really difficult situation so good luck and I hope my friends care about me as much as you do yours!

Original poster

taintedsnow · 12/12/2010 18:28

Hi everyone.

Sorry for not getting back on sooner, had some other drama going on last night and have been out with family all day today.

I am definitely going to talk to my friend first. I don't think I can bring myself to contact SS without at least trying things myself. I'm very grateful to all of you, especially those who helped with ideas about what to say, I have made some notes based on the suggestions.

Thank you to everyone who has said really nice things to me, I thought I might get flamed, but I'm pleased you all saw my intent was good here, and that I really do care about my friend and her DS (he is under 1 and about to start crawling btw, which is a particular reason why the state of the house is worrying).

OP posts:

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