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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

If you knew you were entitled to something at work...

24 replies

Unusednickname · 07/12/2010 18:05

But you knew that getting it would mean a nasty acrimonious fight and that ultimately, as it's discretionary, you would probably not end up with it anyway WWYD?

Have had a letter while on mat leave telling me that I'm not getting an expected payrise whiich I'm sure others at my level will have got.

AIBU to think that fighting for it when I'm only going to go back to work for a couple of months anyway (work don't know that yet) is too much hassle? Am very much in two minds...

OP posts:

scurryfunge · 07/12/2010 18:08

If you are sure others have the pay rise and your work equals theirs then I would kick up stink question it.

ShoppingDays · 07/12/2010 18:09

Yes, it's worth fighting for - don't let yourself be bullied. State your case calmly and if it all goes wrong you're not there much longer anyway.

Original poster

Unusednickname · 07/12/2010 18:15

Well yes I am sure. But my boss was an arse to me while I was pregnant and I think he will claim my work wasn't great which will be upsetting...

OP posts:

SeaTrek · 07/12/2010 18:20

YANBU to think it is not worth the hassle in this situation (unless you are talking about a significant amount of money). I wouldn't bother for just a couple of months pay. I know I should think it is worth the hassle but, really, I think you need to pick your battles and this isn't it by the sounds of it.

cupcakebakerer · 07/12/2010 18:28

It would really annoy me but you have to ask yourself if you can be bothered with the stress that comes with fighting for it? On the other hand I find I make things bigger in my mind than they actually are when a simple email could fix it. Perhaps it's an oversight?

minibmw2010 · 07/12/2010 18:36

I would fight for it, especially as you are only there a couple of months, after all what have you got to lose ?? Plus, if you are entitled to it, you want that payrise to show if you apply for any other jobs when you tell them what your last salary was.

MusieB · 07/12/2010 18:37

Um, sorry, but if it's discretionary then you can't be entitled to it. You have been paid for the work you have done in the past -the pay rise will be for the work your colleagues will do in the future. Given that you're planning to give up work very shortly after you return from ML (and thus won't be doing much work in the future), I think it would be very cheeky (and possibly morally dubious) to make a fuss about this, TBH.

create · 07/12/2010 18:39

If it's a discretionary pay rise isn't it performance related based on the work you've done in the last 12 months. If you've been on maternity leave how are you "entitled" to it?

classydiva · 07/12/2010 20:24

It cannot be discretionary and an entitlement.

It is either one or the other.

kelly2525 · 07/12/2010 20:44

Ive been told I wont get my Christmas holiday pay until after I go back in March, after my maternity leave because "it`ll mess things up"

I cant be arsed arguing

Diamondback · 07/12/2010 20:57

Defo go for it - even if you're intending to leave: (a) this rise reflects your work BEFORE this point and (b) your salary on leaving can affect how much you can ask for next time you go for a job.

Bosses take the piss with women because we3're often too nice to ask for what we're worth - blokes will just ask for more, even if it's cheeky and risk the no. Prepare for what you want to say - what big projects you've worked on, what value you've brought to the company, etc - and don't be afraid to ask colleagues if their raise has also been frozen or if it's just you - go prepared!

AnyFuleSno · 07/12/2010 21:02

there's a misconception here that by going on maternity leave you've somehow made yourself ineligible. That is NOT the case. It is illegal for your employers to give you less preferential treatment due to being on maternity leave (I believe it's sexual discrimination in fact).

I speak from experience as I lost out on qualification for a bonus period through returning from ML in Oct. My employers tried to say that I wasn't entitled to a 2 months pro-rated bonus as I had less than the three months service required as a qualification period. Something which with the help of a clued up friend I was able to successfully challenge.

ChoChoSan · 07/12/2010 21:06

You do need to clarify if it's discretionary or an entitlement. Also bear in mind that your boss will be writing your next reference.

Consider how you have been treated so far as well, if they have paid you above SMP for any part of your maternity leave, then you might decide to let it go on the basis that they have done right by you, so don't sweat the two months potential pay rise.

AnyFuleSno · 07/12/2010 21:12

ChoChoSan, that shows a very low sense of entitlement, and I'm afraid I disagree.

Your employers aren't doing you a favour by employing you. They get their money's worth. If they paid you avove SMP then they did that in the interests of retaining you. It doesn't invalidate your rights.

bb99 · 07/12/2010 21:22

If you have been on mat leave and colleagues have been doing work during that time, then the company may view you as not being entitled to the discretionary pay rise as your work has not progressed in the same way that theirs has ie you couldn't meet your performance management targets by dint of not being there.

When was the pay rise due and what was it for?

AnyFuleSno · 07/12/2010 21:59

the company may think that bb99, but it's not legally the case.

bb99 · 07/12/2010 22:20

If (I am JUST curious about this) you haven't actually been at work eg had a year off for mat leave, how can you prove that during that time you have met your performance management targets, if you've not actually been there IYSWIM. I know that you can't be penalised for being pg or having mat leave but if a pay rise is dependant on fulfilling you PM targets, how can you fulfill them if you're not there?

Honestly I am fully in favour of equal ops, being a girl myself, I am just curious about how the law works in this potential circumstance?

ChoChoSan · 07/12/2010 22:21

Oh, I'm not suggesting it would affect entitlements, and I have very strong views on maternity rights etc., as being a whole society issue, not just a woman issue (after all, even childless men were once born)

I was just thinking that for pragmatic reasons the OP might not want to get mired in any unpleasantness over two months' worth of pay increase.

Also, as an employer there is an element of 'retention' in paying enhanced ML, which might not be legally binding, but the desire to keep the employee on after ML is likely to inform the enhanced pay.

BoffinMum · 07/12/2010 22:29

Onus would be on employer to show that she had not been discriminated against. I would raise it politely.

hairyfairylights · 07/12/2010 22:49

If it is discretionary it isn't an entitlement. If you are entitled there should not be a fight.

Kniternator · 07/12/2010 23:19

You need to look up the employment tribunal for Alabaster, you should be entitled whilst you are on mat leave. This might help.

TrappedinSuburbia · 07/12/2010 23:23

It is discrimination, however.........
Are you going to need them for a reference in the future and
It will be stressful, so take this into consideration as it will be stressful enough going back to work, even moreso into a hostile environment.

Diamondback · 08/12/2010 12:27

ChoChoSan and Trapped, why assume that raising this issue must lead to unpleasantness and tension? Men ask for raises all the time - sometimes they're given something, sometimes they're turned down - but they never sit back for fear that people won't like them, and that's why they get paid better - not because they have penises.

There's no reason not to politely request a meeting, prepare your good valid reasons why you believe you deserve the raise - your performance prior to ML, check with colleagues if they have had the raise, etc. - and go in ready for friendly discussion and negotiation, not confrontation. Act like a grown up, dicuss it firmly but nicely and keep the 'discrimination' issue in the back pocket unless you really need it or they raise it.

For example, if they say 'we aren't going to give you this raise, because it's based on a period on which you weren't here' you just calmly point out that it's not reasonable to assess you on a period when you've been away, for any reason (ie, training course, sabbatical, or maternity) and that you'd like to look at ways your performance could be assessed prior to that period, so that you don't lose out due to taking your maternity leave.

Good luck!

Poogles · 08/12/2010 12:36

Is there a way of finding out whether anyone else actually got the rise? If the Company have said no pay rises this yer due to the economic situation, you haven't been discriminated against.

If others have had it and you believe that before your maternity leave you had hit your performance objectives I would definately ask about it.

FWIW, Companies are usually pretty clued up about discrimination. I applied for a promotion at 7 months pregnant with DS2 and got it even though the Company knew that I would be taking a whole year off. I was worried they would turn me down so had already pulled together exampes of how I had exceeded my targets in case I needed them for appeal!

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