to be properly offended by this numpty?

[maighdlin]

i love the BBC's have your say section. interesting read and you do get some clever people on it. today they were talking about "sexual" items aimed at children, t shirts that say "porn star" etc. one person said this

This does need to be addressed. Kids should be kids. I dispise seeing kids forced to give up fun for 'education' (some kids dont have a clue about fun) and I dispise seeing kids (usually young girls) wanting to look and act like tarts.

In my family I have cousins who were barely up to my knee in height but dance like lapdancers because of the pop singers at the time. Luckily their parents make them dress appropreately but I think if young kids were taught self respect there would be less rape cases. Being taught the difference between a prostitute/lapdancer/stripper and normal behaviour would make all the difference.

I completely agree with what they are saying except for the " I think if young kids were taught self respect there would be less rape cases" WTF????? I am very rarely offended but how bloody dare they say that a girl having low self esteem means she gets raped??? I hate this attitude that some people "deserve" or "ask for it" when it comes to rape. Rape is rape no matter what you are wearing or whatever. Its a stupid misogynistic way to think that only "good" girls get raped.

Im not sure im even making sense here but am so effing angry at this ignorance AIBU to think that some uninformed ignorant dickhead wrote this?

really - so you wouldn't want to be warned that a possibly dangerous man was targeting children in your area?

If there is a specific current threat then yes the public should be warned. Spate of burglaries, pickpockets in the area, flasher at large, yes. When the criminals are caught or it stops then people should be advised of that too.

If it's a general and permanent message of the sort we see a lot which basically say women and girls be scared all the time because you are prey then that is shit and I totally disagree with it.

Take that current TV ad about getting illegal minicabs. It is graphic and utterly terrifying. The fact is that getting in an illegal minicab is going to be dangerous for anyone if the driver is someone who wants to break the law. You could be robbed, raped (men as well), anything. So adverts to everyone saying illegal minicabs are a bad idea, fine. Ads which are absolutely terrifying and seem to serve really only to remind women that they must be scared all the time, not fine. And let's not forget about the scores of women who followed the minicab rules, and got raped by John Warboys. Let's also not forget that women using the number advertised in this terrifying advert generate revenue for the phone service. It's not a public information ad, it's a revenue generating ad, and it's all wrong.

agree, Isn't. The people who commission those ads should think much more clearly about what the problem is, what they are trying to achieve, who they are addressing, and what messages they are sending. And if it's a revenue-raising exercise, Ofcom or the TV channel should look very carefully at whether this is acceptable. There should be some guidance to stop well-intentioned people doing something that makes rape the woman's responsibility - or to stop those who are not well intentioned.

wouldn't it be nice if an organisation that does public awareness ads re. rape did one addressing rapists telling THEM to stop? Explaining that rape is rape is rape and the fact you pick a victim who has had a few drinks doesn't make it any less of a crime?

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a run of adverts exploding rape myth and saying statistically what is really true and what is not.

Wouldn't it be nice if the police were excellent handling rape cases across the board.

Agreed ISNT - couldn't rape campaigns/charities (don't know if they exist) take out big ads in the national papers stating the facts and statistics.

I wouldn't have such a strong objection to those police warnings if instead of saying "women, be scared - only go out with male protector (who is statistically more likely to rape you than a stranger) or not at all" they said "women, be careful, there's a sexual predator about, arm yourself against him. We'll try and catch him first, but if you injure him in the course of defending yourself and other women from him, we will uphold your right to defend yourself and not recommend prosecution".

They never suggest that, do they?

Posted this ages ago and it never appeared!

Yes it would be nice. It would need to be carefully thought out though - for eg "you are far more likely to be raped by someone you know and trust than a stranger" begs the question "what the hell am I supposed to do about that then" IYSWIM.

I think that the media have so much to answer for in propogating incorrect and unhelpful messages. It's exactly the same as the way they have made the general public terrified of "paedophiles on every corner" when again children are most likely to be attacked by someone known to them, and the net result is that children are not given any freedom any more which is pretty detrimental to them. It's an exact parallel, in fact.

I wonder if in years to come, children will also be blamed for not having taken precautions. [Sad]

Female children are certainly sometimes blamed in the media and seemingly society when they are sexually assaulted. And for girls between puberty and 16 (ie older female children) the same double standards and blaming goes on as for adult females.

Yes, there was a high profile and very sad case involving a little girl and two boys aged about 10 recently. Lots of very nasty comments about the poor girl.

It doesn't help when all the pop stars writhing around on tv are always in their knickers. eg. Lady Ga Ga,Rhianna,Kylie etc.

mj, is that the one recently where there were two 10 year olds and an 8 year old and the girl agreed with the defence after a day of questioning that she had made it up so as not to get into trouble? And the papers were reporting it as a game of doctors and nurses?

It's just that there was a case recently with two 10yr old boys accused of rape & attempted rape etc of an 8 year old girl.

The papers were all up in arms saying that it was a children's game and revolting to prosecute normal child behaviour.

Then after a long days questioning the girl agreed with the defence lawyer that she has made it up - cue the papers and threads on here saying how appalling it was and the case had to be thrown out immediately etc.

But the judge at the time said that he understood she was tired and that he didn't have to agree with everything the lady (defence lawyer) said. The trial continued to a lot of outrage.

in the end the boys were found guilty of attempted rape - but even after the conviction I read things saying it was "doctors and nurses" and that she'd made it up and that she'd led them on and even on the TV a presenter said she "probably enjoyed it".

That is the sort of thing we're confronted with in society. Even after a guilty verdict the victim is demonised. And many people only remember that "she lied", often forgetting teh subsequent decision of the jury.

ISNT, the girl repeatedly and specifically stated that she made it up. The jury didn't believe her, fair enough, but that doesn't mean that it then becomes the truth.

mj the thing is, that I think edam was talking about the same case as me, the little girl didn't make it up.

But as soon as someone says "there was a case where a little girl was assaulted" the reponse is immediately "she made it up".

That reflects what happens in society and it adds to a culture where women and girls who complain of sexual abuse and assault are routinely disbelieved.

It goes as far up as the police, who disbelieved john warboys victims, even though they were working in the sapphire specialist rape unit and should have been the best for dealing with rape that there is.

this is why women and children keep it to themselves, don't tell their friends, family, teachers, police, and it eats away at them and the attackers are left free to keep on attacking.

Women and girls do not routinely lie about rape. Why on earth do people think they do?

There has to be a culture where women are disbelieved in order to have fair trials. Maybe not to the level of 'this ever even happened', but certainly to a level of 'well, prove that it happened the way you say it did'.

'this never even happened'

Christ almighty, you believe it is right that there is a culture of disbelief about rape ad sexual assault of women and girls in society and in the police force?

And you are convinced that that little girl was not assaulted even though her attackers were found guilty by a jury, who I note heard all of the evidence. presumably you know something they don't.

If anyone needs evidence of how society feels about rape victims, look no further than those posts.

I cite the women who were raped by John Warboys and were disbelieved by the police, and turned away, and am told that is the correct way it should be?

Fucking hell.

Yes, I believe that it is right that any defendant should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Re that case: "Their conclusion was simply that the boys tried and failed to have intercourse with her. With very young defendants there must be a question as to whether they can be expected to have an understanding of the complexities of the law in this area. It is one thing to "know right from wrong" but another to understand that the criminal justice system would regard touching private parts with a play-mate as potentially a matter which risks years in jail and a lifetime on the sex offenders register."

No. Read my post. Then read yours.

I said that the police and society disbelieve victims of rape and sexual assault as a matter of course, and that is why crimes aren't reported, rapists are left free to continue raping, and victims are left with these terrible things that have happened eating away at them, ruining lives.

Your response was, quite right too.

Mr Manager the two boys were convicted of attempted rape. You can believe that they were done over by this malicious 8 year old all you like, but the jury and judge disagree with you. Linking a blog of someone who agrees with you to "prove" your point just doesn't cut the mustard I'm afraid.