to be properly offended by this numpty?

[maighdlin]

i love the BBC's have your say section. interesting read and you do get some clever people on it. today they were talking about "sexual" items aimed at children, t shirts that say "porn star" etc. one person said this

This does need to be addressed. Kids should be kids. I dispise seeing kids forced to give up fun for 'education' (some kids dont have a clue about fun) and I dispise seeing kids (usually young girls) wanting to look and act like tarts.

In my family I have cousins who were barely up to my knee in height but dance like lapdancers because of the pop singers at the time. Luckily their parents make them dress appropreately but I think if young kids were taught self respect there would be less rape cases. Being taught the difference between a prostitute/lapdancer/stripper and normal behaviour would make all the difference.

I completely agree with what they are saying except for the " I think if young kids were taught self respect there would be less rape cases" WTF????? I am very rarely offended but how bloody dare they say that a girl having low self esteem means she gets raped??? I hate this attitude that some people "deserve" or "ask for it" when it comes to rape. Rape is rape no matter what you are wearing or whatever. Its a stupid misogynistic way to think that only "good" girls get raped.

Im not sure im even making sense here but am so effing angry at this ignorance AIBU to think that some uninformed ignorant dickhead wrote this?

[HerBeatitude]

But where both parties consider it consensual, then it is consensual.

Where is the problem?

[HerBeatitude]

" only one party would be deemed to have been raped."

Only one party would have bene raped, if it had not been consensual.

If a girl takes a dildo and shoves it up a boy's arse, without his consent, only one party will be deemed to have been sexually assaulted - him. Rightly so.

Wht's the problem?

[HerBeatitude]

It's not my opinion that counts mj, it's what the law says. The law says if you're too drunk to give consent, you are being assaulted in those circumstances.

Similarly, if he were in a coma, or out of his head on medically needed drugs (or any other type for that matter) and someone shoved a dildo up his arse and he enjoyed it, it would still be an assault legally, because he wouldn't have had a say in the matter. His response isn't the issue - it's the perpetrator's behaviour that is. And anyone who wants to penetrate someone else's body either with their penis or with another object, needs to know the other person is consenting to that. Being very very drunk, in a coma or asleep are all states of non-consent.

[notmyproblem]

Yes, let's just tell people not to rape and it'll stop happening. Tell people not to steal, cheat, murder, etc. and that'll stop happening too. Oh wait, it won't? And some of you are thinking I live in a fairy land?

There's a big difference between prevention and blame. Blame is blaming the rapist for raping. Prevention is doing everything you can to avoid being in the presence of that rapist. Take control of the things you can control and as for the rest, hope for the best. This is how you minimise your risk.

Yes, it's extremely unfair that you must do these things and extremely unfair that rapists exist in the first place. But that the's real world. Accept it and act accordingly. Yes I said I was lucky because I do think luck plays a part. Sometimes it's just plain bad luck, whether it's a stranger or a person you've known your whole life.

But if you're loaded to the tits, all your friends have gone home, it's 3am and you're now in a secluded place with men you just met a few hours ago and have been coming onto all night, all those conditions you could have controlled are out of your hands. If you're raped you are not to blame. But you might need every last bit of luck to make it home safely. The takeaway message is, don't put yourself in that position.

[HerBeatitude]

"but could you legally argue then, that a non consenting girl would be assualting a non consenting boy, by performing various acts on him, if he was equally drunk and not in a position to consent himself?"

Well I suppose you could. Not sure if anyone has ever tried though. Maybe someone else knows?

[importantinformation]

aibu to wonder how much of this discussion is helpful, except for the 'men: don't rape' bit? Aren't women most likely to be raped by a partner or ex partner or someone they know/are related to?

[HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly]

I think the whole "tell men not to rape" thing is missing the point.

Men know that rape is wrong. Most men would not do it. Those who do, do it knowing it is wrong. A crime.

So it's not about telling men it's wrong. They know that!

It's about understanding why some men - some, I stress - do it and addressing that.

Power, control, feeling women are objects, pornification of society... it is this we need to address. It's a - I want to say symptom of a male controlled society but I know I'll get my arse kicked all over the board.

Saying to men "Do not rape" is not understanding what rape is and why it occurs. imo.

Go on. Let the chorus of "what a load of bollocks" commence.

MrM, I'm looking at you.

[LoudRowdyDuck]

not, I appreciate you dropping the 'idiot' (raped) versus 'smart' (not raped) model in your last post. I had found disturbing, so thanks for modifying.

[importantinformation]

notmyproblem - how exactly are women supposed to do everything possible to avoid being in the presence of a rapist? They break into locked houses, they drive licensed black cabs, might live with you or work with you or be married to you or one of your friends. I have only ever been raped on safe ground, I think it's when your guard is down and you feel you can't possibly be in danger because you are sleeping in your own bed or relaxing with friends you have known for years that you might possibly be most at risk. This is what I draw from my own experiences anyway.

[notmyproblem]

important that's where luck comes in. And that's why the world truly sucks. It's the worst of everything, knowing you did all you could to prevent it, putting yourself in the safest ground you know, not seeing a single warning sign, and still it happened somehow.

[importantinformation]

What does a warning sign look like?

[notmyproblem]

LRD apologies that my initial post sounded harsh. I wrote it quickly and in horror at some of the things I was reading. It really sounded like some posters here were ready to (figuratively of course) dress up their daughters and parade them out into the most vulnerable situations possible as bait to prove their point. I understand fully their idealism, but losing all sense of realism is not how to prevent rape or how to even publicise the prevention of rape.

important you're telling me you've never been in a situation where you felt uncomfortable with another person and feared that things might become physically dangerous to yourself?

[importantinformation]

I've felt uncomfortable but not for one minute anticipated that a vague feeling of unease might find sudden, physically injurious realisation. Learning the hard way I suppose it's called, or perhaps some powerful conditioning earlier in life to avoid causing offence and bypass whatever developmental stage brings with it the ability to set boundaries and the belief that you can control what happens to you.

It might all be luck, but if it's happened once there's increased probability it will again.

[importantinformation]

I think what I'm trying to say is that I am not willing to take any responsibility for whatever I did wrong or didn't do right, and, however irrational, I don't like any Rape Prevention Tips for Women.

[LoudRowdyDuck]

I understand - it's always going to be a very fraught subject.

I'm afraid we're not likely to agree: I feel that focusing on the minority, the atypical cases where their might be prior signs of something amiss, doesn't tackle (and often, I think, distracts from), the main issue.

[LoudRowdyDuck]

(that was in reply to not, btw)

[whiteflame]

those who are saying that they want men to be told not to rape (how patronising), rather than girls taking ANY precautions EVER... would you be happy to do anything you like as long as you can say 'well it was his fault'?? well yes, rape was the rapists fault, but you're still the one that got raped!

in hypothetical cases, blame is secondary to prevention. i am not that interested who is to blame. i'd far rather concentrate on reducing the chance of it happening in the first place.

[LoudRowdyDuck]

Yes, white, I'm sure 'happy' really sums up the feelings of raped women.

[importantinformation]

but we KNOW it is most likely to be a current or ex boyfriend or husband, or a colleague or a boss or a friend or friend of a friend

how do you reduce the chances, given that there is always the small but real chance of a complete stranger breaking into your house?

[HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly]

I agree.

By tackling the problem with society that means that some men think that they have the right to abuse women.

We have a choice. We can carry on telling women to be careful. Take preventative measures. Don't go out alone at night. Don't drink...

Or we can say let's look at why some men do this and address that. Let's make some real societal (is that even a word? ) changes.

Now I know in reality, we'd have to do both.

But if we did both, we'd only have to do the first for a while before society changed by doing the second that the first was no longer needed.

If that makes any sense.