to be proud to be British over the World Cup?

[Appletrees]

We are fantastic. We didn't lie, we didn't cheat, we didn't backstab. It was a great bid, football fans were behind it, it was honest, it was full of effort and hard work. I would rather do the right thing and lose than engineer, bully, threaten and bribe to win.

Well done us.

Please applatrees enough with your questions of asking if i have ever left the country or read papers because i don't agree with your opinion. It is getting quite boring now - I didn't realise i was talking to such a well travelled and well read person...

In the area of business transparency and the rule of law - yes it can.

(and again - to reiterate, I'm not British. Not Russian either).

It's why London is the financial centre it is - if people break a contract, it will be enforced by the courts. Why do you think pretty much any major Russian (and other nationality) company is trying to come and list on the LSE? It's to get the veneer of credibility that being listed in the UK has. An acquaintance who does financial analysis covering the Russian markets went there recently for an awards ceremony on "transparency in accounting standards", and said it was the biggest joke EVER. You had all these companies that are hideously opaque being given awards (like Gazprom, Gunvor) for being open and honest. It's ridiculous.

Obviously. But feel free to respond to any of my points, or use that as an excuse not to if you wish.

I think Britain is much better than the vast majority of countries. We are far from perfect, but we are also our own harshest critics and the first people to kick ourselves when we do wrong by others. Ask any poor and disadvantaged person from just about anywhere in the world where they'd like a free passport to. There is your answer.

Transparency International's shiny new corruption perception index, in a new interactive form. HOURS of entertainment

Agree Abs. Oblomov: yes it does make me depressed in a way, partly because it's so open. It's very worrying. But I think it's a wake up call that we should stand up to it even more. We can't be nice about it any more, we can't brush it under the carpet and we can't pretend it isn't there.

UK same corruption level as Russia ?

Seriously ?
I am a Russian Graduate and have been to Russia many times.
So , NO.
Nyet = Russian for 'no'.

Abs by the way that is great work, I would like to apply a spot of pledge to the halo.

Thanks Appletrees

On the TI CPI - UK at number 20 (1 being least corrupt), Russia at number 154 (only 24 places away from the most corrupt - Somalia).

Abs your factual posts are truely brilliant.

They're interesting. Good old Canada.

Really? How do you know England didn't play dirty and try bribes and make promises etc.

It's nothing at all to do with "being morally better" than others, as the OP implies. England just didn't 'do the deals' and play by the bent rules as well as other bidding countries.

You're just making that up because you can't bear the idea of being able to congratulate the UK on something that makes it "better". You have no idea if what you say is true, and no evidence -- when all the evidence, circumstantal and historical, points otherwise. You just can't stand that.

is that for me appletrees?

love how 'England' and 'Britain' are interchangeable, here.

Well the bid was by England but when we are talking about national standards, and corruption, and our identity/honesty as perceived by the rest of the world, we are British, are we not?

The bid was by England, but no doubt Britain would be paying for it.

And no, not really.

So are you Scots or Welsh then? Only it seems that the English are not allowed to actually be English - only British. Whilst the Scots and Welsh are perfectly entiteld to be Scots and Welsh and are under no boligation to be British at all.

That was my point! Speak for England, not for everyone else.

No, we are not the same. Travelling around the world the Irish, both north and south are the most welcomed, and the Scots and Welsh too. English not so much. Have travelled a fair bit and this has been noticeable.

England does have a very poor image abroad, not helped by a rapacious history re 'the empire'. But also it isn't so hard to believe England tried but failed in the bribery stakes. England successfully bid for the Olympics in 2012, the Commonwealth Games in 2002, and have losing experiences regarding the Olympics. They know what the landscape is.
Upholding losing this bribery round as a good reason for patriotism is childish and risible.

Actually I deliberately used Britain and not England. And nb Prince William is William Wales. I said Britain and not England because no doubt the Celts would otherwis have risen up in force and said o ho, you think you're morally better than us, do you? I think the way the England bid conducted itself DOES reflect the British civil code. So unlessyou're saying it doesn't, and that Scotland and Wales would have connived with the best of them, it's a rather contrived argument, otherwise known as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Childish my foot. It's childish to stick your fingers in your ears and put your hands over your eyes and say "not happening, not happening".

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

and ha

Appletrees I posted to pretty much say the same, but deleted becuase I've got better things to do today than have long drawn out chip-on-shoulder arguments!

And as for the whole of Britain paying for England's bid -well I have no idea, but it would make a nice change.

Do you know even non-British EU member students can get free university education in Scotland and Wales but the English cannot?