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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

big boys inthe pre-school

102 replies

steppemum · 02/12/2010 10:04

We have a small village pre-school, on some days there are just 3 kids. It is lovely, like playing at a friends house, with all the fun stuff (paint, cooking etc)
One of the staff has is now home schooling 3 of her kids, boys aged 13, 11 and 8. She is bringing them in to the pre-school with her. So we have one room portacabin set up for toddlers, and on Monday there were 3 little girls aged 2 and 3, and 3 big boys doing their home school stuff, and generally being boys.

I am not happy, I think it completely upsets the balance of the room. I asked dd (in a bright jolly sort of voice) Was it fun having the big boys there today to play with? and she said very emphatically No, I didn't like it, I want to play with my friends. I have nothing against the individual or her sons, or her decision to home school, but I just don't think those big boys should be there.

I spoke to the play leader on Monday, she says Ofsted says it is OK, bit I don't think she is very happy about it. I have phoned the PATA and asked for advice, and they said as long as Ofsted says it is OK and their insurance says it is ok, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be there ( a bit like when you have a mums and toddler's group and older siblings come in the school holidays)

No-one else seems to think it is appropriate, I have asked a couple of friends with experience running pre-school groups and they think it isn't good. I have started to hear negative comments from other villagers who have nothing to do with the school 'what on earth are those big boys doing in the pre-school?'

I am in a difficult situation, the 3 kids on monday were my dd, the staff members own dd (little sister of the 3 boys) and one other girl whose mother I have never met and do't know (she doesn't live here in the village) the other mums I do know send their kids on different days when this member of staff doesn't work and so no boys.

Of course I could just switch dd to the other days but after Christmas I wanted her to do 3 days which would have to include one day with this situation. Also it seems like a cop out to just move dd and not address the issue. This is a great little pre-school with an outstanding ofsted and I don't want to see it damaged by this.

I just don't think they should be there. AIBU? and if it isn't unreasonable, what would you do?

I forgot to mention the person concerned who brings in her kids is chairperson of the manegement committee...

OP posts:
JenaiMarrsTartanFoxCube · 02/12/2010 11:58

My 10 yo would be an absolute asset - he's great with small children. His Y2 teacher used to bring her teenage ds into school when he had inset days - he was a real gem, too. I appreciate that one lad takes up rather less room than three though Grin

It would be a shame if the staff member had to quit because people objected to her bringing her DCs in. Unless they were unruly I wouldn't have a problem.

loonyrationalist · 02/12/2010 11:58

Depending on the constitution staff can be on the committee - is definitely not best practice to have them as chair though.

I guess in such a small setting it is very difficult to get committee members - the op says she is not on the committee for example.

You need to objectively decide how this is affecting your dd - is it limiting or inhibiting her access to play; is the care she receives compromised etc etc. If you feel there are issues you can either bring them to the attention of the committee or move her.

Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 12:09

sunshineriver
I am not convinced that it was all thought out and permission asked. She withdrew them from school one at a time, the last one was out of school on thursday and in the pre-school on monday. It may be ( but I am only speculating) that she asked permission for the first one and then the others just came too when she took them out.

But that is between her and the pre-school how she has set it up. As the chair though she may just have asked herself...

My older kids go to the village school where they are in mixed age classes, which have lots of advantages and disadvantages, but as fffreezing says, these kids aren't 'in' the school or under ths control of the school.

OP posts:
Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 12:10

thanks limez

OP posts:
Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 12:11

loonyrationalist
I'm not on the committee because I do loads at the school and can't do everything!

OP posts:
Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 12:16

Right, I must get off the computer and go and get dd lunch. Thank you all very much for your posts and your help. It has been very interesting, and very helpful having to explain what the problem is, as it helps me to understand myself, and has made me rethink a couple of things.

I will think about it a bit more I think. I don't want to phone 'authorities' or get the preschool into trouble, so I will think and then only act -if at all- with caution and not behind anyone's back.

I won't be back on line today so if you leave new comments/questions, sorry you won't get feedback from op

OP posts:
MumNWLondon · 02/12/2010 12:16

It would bother me, unless they were in a seperate area.

Firstly, my DD would, at that age, have felt very very inimidated by them.

Secondly how can the teacher do her job if she is homeschooling? If they really don't need any supervision by her then she should leave them at home. Either she is working or she is home schooling - which is it???

goldenticket · 02/12/2010 12:19

You can speak to Ofsted anonymously - I would urge you to do this.

KangarooCaught · 02/12/2010 12:23

YANBU. I wouldn't like it as it wouldn't be the my choice of setting for my preschooler which presumably you're playing for. Their space and range of activities is compromised. And presumably other places at the preschool are now limited with the boys being in the room? What happens if other children want to attend? And rather limits the number of children dc can play with, no?

Have no objection to boys, have 2 myself, teach lots of them and my CM has 4 - but the context of the situation is everything.

In your shoes I would move dd to other sessions, making clear that the lack of space/curtailment of activities/limited no of children to play with is now the reason. What management then choose to do in response to that is down to them.

KangarooCaught · 02/12/2010 12:24

sorry, paying, not playing.

onimolap · 02/12/2010 12:30

Is there any way you can check the insurance? IIRC it's non-standard for pre-school insurance to cover over 8s. Better to find out now than discover after any accidents.

DownyEmerald · 02/12/2010 12:38

This would bother me. I think there is a reason that we send our little ones to playgroup and not school. I wouldn't take my child to work, I don't see why this mother should think it is ok, just because she works with children.

Is she sorting out other options? - it could just be a temp thing - sorry haven't read whole thread.

deaconblue · 02/12/2010 12:41

I am really surprised you are getting so many people saying you are being U. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a pre-school to be for pre-school aged children only. How is the member of staff teaching her sons and your toddlers at the same time? I think it sounds like a really weird set up to me.

peeringintothevoid · 02/12/2010 12:49

"Limez, I was saddened, not because of lots of people disagreeing with me, that is a risk if you post under AIBU, and I am pretty unflappable in that way. It was that some people seem to be quite bitchy in their response. I have been on mumsnet for 8 years but don't post very often, and people seem quicker to jump to a negative conclusion rather than ask a question to get more information. Well, things change"

People seem to be getting steadily ruder and nastier on here, and quicker to jump to unfounded conclusions too. It astonishes me when people seem to think they can infer enough about someone's personality and circumstances from a few lines, to attack them personally. Sad

peeringintothevoid · 02/12/2010 12:50

I think your best bet, OP, is to change days (telling them nicely why) and see whether the situation changes in the next month or two.

Good luck. Smile

Lonnie · 02/12/2010 14:38

I am actually quite surprised how many of you are saying you cant see a problem. I certainly can

if my dh started taking his kids with him into work to " home school them" sure as heck his work would have issues with it and rightly so. If she is at work she is paid to look after the children she is looking after there not to home school her kids at work.

I have the greatest respect for people whom homeschool their children it is a HUGE undetaking. it is not imo one you take to bring them into work with you. Also if she is "home schooling" whilst at work how much of her attention is on the kids she is meant to mind and how much is on the kids being "home schooled"

LittleMissHoHoHoFit · 02/12/2010 14:57

I am in the I have a problem with this camp.

Home Ed is Home Ed, not Camp in a pre-school and Ed. It is her decision to home-school her DC, bringing them to work is not right.

it doesn't matter if they are not harming anyone, it is just not right.

Good point Lonnie!

minipie · 02/12/2010 15:25

YANBU. As Lonnie says, when someone is at work they are supposed to be working, not home schooling their three children at the same time. I can't believe that she can give as much attention to 3 3-year-olds when her own three older children are in the room, as she could if they were not there.

IMO this would be the best basis for any complaint, not size of the room etc.

MisSalLaneous · 02/12/2010 15:29

I wouldn't like it either. Fine as a temporary measure if the mom had a crisis, but not on a long term basis.

Why? Well, a couple of reasons. Firstly, it is not fair on the boys to be confined to such a small space. As their mom has to supervise the toddlers, she can't go outside with them without the others, which would mean parts of their day is likely to be spent getting frustrated indoors.

Then, the space issue of course.

Also, boys being boys, they will at some stage become loud and overexcited (I say this as someone with 2 loving brothers). In a bigger space it will be fine, in a confined space it might be upsetting for a tired toddler.

I think mixing with different ages are great when the facilities support this, e.g. in a childminder situation, where everyone is not confined to one room, or a bigger nursery set-up. Here, I don't think it is right.

mnistooaddictive · 02/12/2010 15:41

Yanbu. I can't believe all the people who think it is ok. She is at work and should be doing her job! Other people don't take children to work an neither should she. As a one off invexceptionsl circumstances bug not solvent time. I know dd1 would be inhibited by 3 much older boys and that would ruin her experience. As someone said earlier a secondary school teacher doesnt take preschoolers into work so why any different. I agree you should raise it with chair of committee. They must have given permission and if enough parents don't like if they will need to do something about it.

Gubbins · 02/12/2010 15:49

I would have a problem with this. As other's have said, one older child helping with the younger ones would be fine, but when there are as many older kids as preschoolers then it is no longer the pre-school situation that the OP is paying for. I presume it is legal though, which presumably is what ofsted were asked, but I bet if they inspected again now it wouldn't be judged outstanding.

I would give them the opportunity to consider the implications. Explain that because of the current situation you will be changing days, and if there is no change then you would not feel able to increase your daughter's days as you had hoped and might have to consider wihdrawing her completely. If they are made aware that this womans decision will have financial implications for the pre-school then they may ask her to re-think her arrangements.

JamieLeeCurtis · 02/12/2010 15:59

I would also have a problem with this (I have 2 boys, age 7 and 10).

I could be a lovely thing, beneficial to the younger and older children alike - big boys are often really good with little children, IME.

BUT, this was not planned for the benefit of the pre-school, no consultation was undertaken, and as such, I think it should be questioned.

mamadiva · 02/12/2010 16:04

YANBU.

The staff member is there to teach/play/supervise the little ones not her own children, there is no way her full attention is on the job.

I would also be pissed off at the fact these boys are there taking up quite alot of a very small play space.

If the other parents are annoyed with this situation I would get together and approach the leader again giving your reasons for being unhappy with the arrangement and see what happens. If the lady wants to home school that's fine but it should'nt done in her workplace!

Actually just thinking are you sure she's not working her notice or something as it does sound very odd?

loonyrationalist · 02/12/2010 20:34

steppemum - I didn't mean to come across as criticising - I completely understand that some people don't have the time - in our setting we have 5 committee members from a potential 30. I was just trying to point out that in such a small setting it is inevitable that they will struggle to get enough committee member & I can see why they would have to make up the shortfall with staff.

pantomimecow · 03/12/2010 09:16

The problem is in small remote villages it is very hard to get qualified staff and even harder to get people involved with taking responsibility for management.A very good pre-schoool near us closed down recently for exactly this reason.