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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

big boys inthe pre-school

102 replies

steppemum · 02/12/2010 10:04

We have a small village pre-school, on some days there are just 3 kids. It is lovely, like playing at a friends house, with all the fun stuff (paint, cooking etc)
One of the staff has is now home schooling 3 of her kids, boys aged 13, 11 and 8. She is bringing them in to the pre-school with her. So we have one room portacabin set up for toddlers, and on Monday there were 3 little girls aged 2 and 3, and 3 big boys doing their home school stuff, and generally being boys.

I am not happy, I think it completely upsets the balance of the room. I asked dd (in a bright jolly sort of voice) Was it fun having the big boys there today to play with? and she said very emphatically No, I didn't like it, I want to play with my friends. I have nothing against the individual or her sons, or her decision to home school, but I just don't think those big boys should be there.

I spoke to the play leader on Monday, she says Ofsted says it is OK, bit I don't think she is very happy about it. I have phoned the PATA and asked for advice, and they said as long as Ofsted says it is OK and their insurance says it is ok, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be there ( a bit like when you have a mums and toddler's group and older siblings come in the school holidays)

No-one else seems to think it is appropriate, I have asked a couple of friends with experience running pre-school groups and they think it isn't good. I have started to hear negative comments from other villagers who have nothing to do with the school 'what on earth are those big boys doing in the pre-school?'

I am in a difficult situation, the 3 kids on monday were my dd, the staff members own dd (little sister of the 3 boys) and one other girl whose mother I have never met and do't know (she doesn't live here in the village) the other mums I do know send their kids on different days when this member of staff doesn't work and so no boys.

Of course I could just switch dd to the other days but after Christmas I wanted her to do 3 days which would have to include one day with this situation. Also it seems like a cop out to just move dd and not address the issue. This is a great little pre-school with an outstanding ofsted and I don't want to see it damaged by this.

I just don't think they should be there. AIBU? and if it isn't unreasonable, what would you do?

I forgot to mention the person concerned who brings in her kids is chairperson of the manegement committee...

OP posts:
Limez · 02/12/2010 11:07

If you genuinely feel its a problem then you need to arrange some kind of meeting with this woman, the manager, whoever elses has an interest (inc other parents who agree with you) and get all your concerns out in the open.

The informal discussions going on atm are unlikely to look good if it gets back to this woman.

Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 11:08

sorry, loads of typos, first line should say only WAY forward.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 02/12/2010 11:09

slight change around for me having read and thought more......is this likely to be a permanent thing op? have you asked,or said already?

not fair on the boys eithe if so.

but be carefull....villages an all that,especially if you're an 'incomer'! Xmas Grin

LostArt · 02/12/2010 11:19

I would have a problem with it - either she is HE her children or she's working. I can't imaging many employers would be happy to have children in the workplace.

But, if the management and ofsted are happy with the situation, I can't see what you can do. I would move DD to different days.

ISNT · 02/12/2010 11:19

YANBU I think.

At our pre-school they even split the children between teeny-weenies (they take them from 2) and bigger ones who are nearly off to school. Because they have different levels of understanding, want to do different things, and can be intimidated by some of the bigger more boisterous ones. I think that in such a tiny setting have 3 littlies and 3 great big ones will totally change the flavour of what is going on.

Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 11:22

not an incomer, my parents live here.

It is likely to be permanent. If it was just for a couple of weeks then I wouldn't be bothered.
I actually don't think it is great for the boys either. But that is for her as a parent to decide and is not really my business.

One reason I am holding off going to speak to this mum and the manager is that she hasn't been doing this for long, and I was sort of hoping that she would realise it isn't working, and as the play leader isn't very happy with it, then I thought they might work it out between them selves.

Just to go back to another point. The room is registered for 7 pre-schoolers. Who take up a lot less space than 13 year olds. It is not registered for 7 pre-schoolers and 7 parents. It has 2 members of staff on and the parents go home or to work.

I have been quite surprised that some people on the basis of one post jump to massive conclusions (like I am out on some vendetta) I haven't posted on mumsnet for a long time, and I am a bit sad at that change

OP posts:
mowbraygirl · 02/12/2010 11:24

YANBU I worked in a pre-school for many years and we would not have been allowed for a situation like you are in to happen. I don't think the insurance company would be happy with it. They used to say to us that you are insured for having x number of pre-schoolers and x number of staff and that is it.

I can't really understand that OFSTED say it is OK as they are so fussy about other things.

3 older boys sprawling all over the place is in my mind a safety measure and what if when they were 'messing' about one of the little ones got hurt which could easily happen in a small area.

coppertop · 02/12/2010 11:26

I agrre with Sandstorm about the committee. I didn't think employees were allowed to be on the committee, let alone be the Chair.

Fiddledee · 02/12/2010 11:28

I would just say your DD is not happy with the bigger children around and you will be making other arrangements in the New Year as the pre-school isn't the same as you signed up to. See what they say and just sign up your DD to another pre-school from January. I don't see whats so hard.

Goblinchild · 02/12/2010 11:28

Have you checked with OFSTED personally?
I'd ask.

LostArt · 02/12/2010 11:29

Would it be possible for you to help out sometime? It would give you a clearer idea about what actually goes on. You never know - it might not be as bad as you think. [hopeful smile]

Limez · 02/12/2010 11:33

Ah, I assumed the parents stayed. My mistake.

I dont think you need to be upset at the reaction you've had, your initial post led to some sceptical replies (mine included) because it wasnt very clear why the boys being there was a problem.

Your subsequent posts have made it clearer and the replies to you have been more supportive.

Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 11:33

fiddledee
the preschool is in the village, walking distance from home. I really don't want to get in a car and drive her to another village/town. Apart from the fact that I don't always have the car if dh needs it for work.

We really want to support the village facilities. The pre-school has an ofsted outstanding, and is very small and friendly. It would be a very sad conclusion to move elsewhere. I do have the option of changing days, and then not increasing to 3 days in Jan. I would love her to do 3 days as she loves it, but well, c'est la vie

OP posts:
goldenticket · 02/12/2010 11:35

I think I would phone Ofsted. It's one thing the pre-school phoning and checking and being told it's OK (and did they give all the details?) but quite another if a parent is phoning with concerns.

Limez · 02/12/2010 11:35

Just speak to them!

You're unhappy, others are unhappy - but you need to be open and honest, otherwise its not going to get sorted.

If you arranged a meeting, explained your concerns but they chose to carry on as it is then you know you have to re-think being there, but at least try.

pantomimecow · 02/12/2010 11:36

Is the playgroup a registered charity or is it privately owned? If it is registered charity then the trustees, who are ultimately responsible (and liable) for every aspect of the preschool, cannot legally also be employees.If it's privately owned then you have't really a leg to stand on if the owners are happy.
I'm a bit surprised you know whether the arrangement 'works' or not whenyou are not actually teher to observe.

giddly · 02/12/2010 11:36

I'm surprised ofsted said it was OK. WE were told it was bad practice when we had a similar temporary situation in our pre-school(which was only one older child and not actually a problem). I agree that it would change the dynamics and don't quite understand how the member of staff can supervise her children and do her job fully.

goldenticket · 02/12/2010 11:37

I'd also check with Ofsted about the Chairperson also being a member of staff - doesn't sound right to me.

Original poster
steppemum · 02/12/2010 11:43

I think on balance we will change her days. i will say why, but not pursue it in any other way. They have to make their own decision as to whether or not they want to operate with the boys there.

I would like to know about the insurance and about whether there is a conflict of interest with the chair working for them. I don't know how I can find that out easily.

Goblinchild: can you ask that directly to ofsted?

Limez, I was saddened, not because of lots of people disagreeing with me, that is a risk if you post under AIBU, and I am pretty unflappable in that way. It was that some people seem to be quite bitchy in their response. I have been on mumsnet for 8 years but don't post very often, and people seem quicker to jump to a negative conclusion rather than ask a question to get more information. Well, things change

OP posts:
goldenticket · 02/12/2010 11:46

From Ofsted's website:

Call 0300 123 4666 if you want to make a complaint or have a concern about any service Ofsted inspects or regulates (8.00am to 6.00pm)

CrystalQueen · 02/12/2010 11:49

YANBU. How can you home-ed your children at work?

Round here, lots of toddler groups stop in the school holidays because of problems with people bringing older children along.

sunshineriver · 02/12/2010 11:50

To put yourself in the mum's shoes - she must have had to have asked permission to take them into preschool, both from the committee and Ofsted - and I would assume that she will have moaned about expressed her concerns about the boys' school life and that her decision to bring them into preschool with her must have been one that was thoughtout and discussed with the relevant bodies properly - though perhaps the preschool did not foresee that perhaps the parents would not be happy with the situation - if Ofsted do not mind, then they probably thought it a safe bet that the parents of the other 2 (?) children also would not mind...

Personally, I do not think that you are wrong to feel it inappropriate, but in the same breath, I have to say that I have no idea how to tackle the situation.

risingstar · 02/12/2010 11:53

move your dds days so it is not a problem

say very specifically and in writing why you are doing so

it will then only be 2 girls, and 3 older boys- dont see how that can be workable.

sounds iffy to me

yanbu at all- i would not like this at all- i send my dd to preschool to play and interact with other toddlers ahead of school and skilled play workers.

my dd has plenty of experience of older boys- cousins etc- that is not the purpose of a pre-school.

the staffs children sometime come to dds nursery during the school hols, but it is a big space and one member of staff is dedicated to looking after them

fffreeezing · 02/12/2010 11:56

YANBU, its a preschool! Unless they are there to 'help' in a work experience type way. I've seen older children in our local pre-school and they are there to help for perhaps one afternoon a week. I don't see why its ok, yes some schools are very mixed, esp small rural schools but thats not the case, these bigger children aren't actually 'in' the school. They're just 'there', seems a strange set-up Hmm

Limez · 02/12/2010 11:57

Steppemum - I'm sorry, because I was one of those who replied in a rather chippy way.

Going on your initial posts I really thought you were being unreasonable as I couldn't see the problem. Still not certain I'd see it as a problem but you sound reasonable so I'll certainly take your word for it that this is causing a disruption to the pre-school.

Good luck with it all.

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