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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

big boys inthe pre-school

102 replies

steppemum · 02/12/2010 10:04

We have a small village pre-school, on some days there are just 3 kids. It is lovely, like playing at a friends house, with all the fun stuff (paint, cooking etc)
One of the staff has is now home schooling 3 of her kids, boys aged 13, 11 and 8. She is bringing them in to the pre-school with her. So we have one room portacabin set up for toddlers, and on Monday there were 3 little girls aged 2 and 3, and 3 big boys doing their home school stuff, and generally being boys.

I am not happy, I think it completely upsets the balance of the room. I asked dd (in a bright jolly sort of voice) Was it fun having the big boys there today to play with? and she said very emphatically No, I didn't like it, I want to play with my friends. I have nothing against the individual or her sons, or her decision to home school, but I just don't think those big boys should be there.

I spoke to the play leader on Monday, she says Ofsted says it is OK, bit I don't think she is very happy about it. I have phoned the PATA and asked for advice, and they said as long as Ofsted says it is OK and their insurance says it is ok, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be there ( a bit like when you have a mums and toddler's group and older siblings come in the school holidays)

No-one else seems to think it is appropriate, I have asked a couple of friends with experience running pre-school groups and they think it isn't good. I have started to hear negative comments from other villagers who have nothing to do with the school 'what on earth are those big boys doing in the pre-school?'

I am in a difficult situation, the 3 kids on monday were my dd, the staff members own dd (little sister of the 3 boys) and one other girl whose mother I have never met and do't know (she doesn't live here in the village) the other mums I do know send their kids on different days when this member of staff doesn't work and so no boys.

Of course I could just switch dd to the other days but after Christmas I wanted her to do 3 days which would have to include one day with this situation. Also it seems like a cop out to just move dd and not address the issue. This is a great little pre-school with an outstanding ofsted and I don't want to see it damaged by this.

I just don't think they should be there. AIBU? and if it isn't unreasonable, what would you do?

I forgot to mention the person concerned who brings in her kids is chairperson of the manegement committee...

OP posts:

DooinMeCleanin · 02/12/2010 10:36

It will be good for your dd to realise that she cannot dictate what happens in a social setting, nor can you.

It will also be good for her to interact with various age groups. If she cannot handle 'big boys' how is she going to manage school?

SJisontheway · 02/12/2010 10:38

My DD attends a similar size preschool and I wouldn't like this either. It's not a safety issue, I just wouldn't like the dynamic. I don't see there's much you can do though, other than move your daughters days. Surprised so many people don't see a problem. I wouldn't like it at all - and definitely not a boy thing. i wouldn't like older girls dominating the environment either.

Vallhala · 02/12/2010 10:39

Banging, you'd be surprised how little supervision most (NT) home-ed kids need.

Besides, the balance of work and the supervision of the staff members own HE DC has been officially approved so doesn't appear to be in question from a professional POV.

I'm taking issue with the view that "everyone" is unhappy with this set-up (barring OFSTED and said professionals in charge of course) as "everyone" appears to be a couple of the OP's friends and a few locals who have nothnig to do with the pre-school and who quite possibly, like so many members of the public here, have no real idea of the philosophy, law or practice of HE and are against it by very virtue of the fact that 'those big boys should be in school, it can't be legal, the mother's one of those hippy types...'.

sparkle12mar08 · 02/12/2010 10:39

I'm a mother of two boys and it would definately bother me. To my mind they compromise the safety and appropriatenes of the setting because they are that much older and that much bigger and more physical. It has nothing to do with them being a 'threat' in any way, but it is patently obviously not the most appropriate place for them. I certainly wouldn't send my child while they were there tbh.

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 02/12/2010 10:39

It'd bother me.

Same as it'd bother me if a secondary teacher decided to HE her 3 preschoolers and brought them to sit in her classroom all day.

The setting is a preschool. It is a space for small children. They should have the full attention of the staff.

And preschool isn't a 'social setting' IMO.

peeringintothevoid · 02/12/2010 10:40

I think that, if the room is as small as you described in your last post, then YANBU. Also, if the mother of the boys is the only member of staff, then surely a lot of her time is going to be monopolised by managing her older boys. It wouldn't be so much so if they'd always been home schooled, but if she's only recently pulled them out of school then there's going to be a huge amount of adjustment and boundary testing going on, I'd have thought. They'd have to be ultra-well behaved boys not to be taking their mum's attention away from her job, IMO.

Original poster

steppemum · 02/12/2010 10:40

dd is not a PFB she is the youngest of 3 and they are loud and lively, and I repeat I am also the mother of boys. I am not precious about my kids, they have to work out it out if they can't get on with another child, and sharing, learning to be with older kids are all good things.

just to respond to some comments (sorry if I don't mention the name of the poster)

It is hard to ask the committee (I am not on it) because the mother involved is the chair person of that committee

I have not discussed this with 'everyone except the mother in question' because I wanted to take some time and not rush in if that wasn't right. I have spoken to the play leader, very simply, just asked her what the situation was, and she was the one who told me ofsted was ok with it etc. I have very carefully not discussed this with others in the village but asked opinion elsewhere, eg mumsnet

As to the staff, the only other staff on those days is the play leader who I spoke to. She gave me the impression that she wasn't actually very happy with the situation.

As to keeping the pre-school open, it was fine one month ago, why would taking these boys out make it close?

OP posts:

2old4thislark · 02/12/2010 10:40

It would bother me too. Maybe not be so bad if they did sit quietly and do their work. However think that 3 brothers of 8,11 & 13 that that would be unlikely.

I don't think there's much you could do but move your days or put up with it though. In a small village ruffling feathers may not be a good idea.

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 02/12/2010 10:43

Oh and I am v pro- HE - did it myself with DD until recently.

Its to do with the dynamic of a preschool. If its such a small one then it is altered completely by three older children.

peeringintothevoid · 02/12/2010 10:46

Also, I think that you're doing exactly the right thing by discussing it on here rather than in a small community where it's bound to get back to the woman in question. Seems a shame that you're getting a hard time from people.

I see that the woman is working alongside another playleader. I wouldn't be very pleased either if my co-worker was suddenly spending significant amounts of time managing three boys. To all of you who are saying home ed kids don't take much management, this would surely be less true when they've only just started being home educated? And are making an enormous adjustment to not being at school?

SJisontheway · 02/12/2010 10:47

People usually send their kids to preschool so can learn to socialise with their peers and do age appropriate activities. There's nothing wrong with learning how to interact with older children, but for most people it is not the purpose of preschool.

suiledonne · 02/12/2010 10:48

I'm with the OP on this one. I think YANBU.

As a couple of others have said I would not like the dynamic of 3 significantly older children in a tiny pre-school.

I can't see why so many think it is fine for this staff member to bring her 3 children to her work.

It seems as if the staff member is taking advantage of her position as chair of the committee.

Original poster

steppemum · 02/12/2010 10:50

also I am not against home schooling, I had to home school my eldest myself when we lived overseas. I have a very good understanding of the joys and trails involved. Her decision to home school is hers and is none of my business. home schooling is not the issue here, I wish her all the best in her decision.

onother response to a post:
The pre-school is registered for 7 kids. Ths room is fine for that many.

How do I kow what is going on? Well, when I drop off and pick up, I can see what is going on. I do not have a grudge, I have been very happy with this pre-school, and have gone out of my way to support it where I can. I am not un-informed I am a teacher, so I have some professional understanding of the issues involved, but when it is your own kids, I just want to be sure I am being objective. If the consensus is that no-one else has a problem then obviously I have got it wrong.

I am posted to genuinely ask, not to rant to seek supporters for my position.

OP posts:

2shoesnightmarebeforechristmas · 02/12/2010 10:50

I would wonder about insurance and whether it is allowed by the insurance company

squeaver · 02/12/2010 10:52

Fwiw, I don't think you come across as precious but I think 2old is probably right. This could become a big thing that won't be good for anyone involved.

And maybe posting in AIBU wasn't the best idea..

SandStorm · 02/12/2010 10:53

I'm with the OP on this one. The mother is there as a member of staff and as such the children in her care should be her priority. Can she honestly put her hand on her heart and say that in an emergency (fire or such like) her focus will be on the preschool children? Of course she can't. And that, right there, is the problem for me.

Eglu · 02/12/2010 10:56

I'm with you OP. If this woman wishes to HE her children that is her choice, but she is as the pre-school doing a job, and should be focusing on that job. Other parents do not get to take their DC to work. I can't work in my office and HE my DC atthe same time, so I don't see why she should.

Also it does sound like there is just not space for them.

Limez · 02/12/2010 10:56

"The pre-school is registered for 7 kids. Ths room is fine for that many"

So the room is fine for an additional 4 children and 4 parents.

But not 3 older children?

coppertop · 02/12/2010 10:57

I wouldn't be comfortable with it tbh. It would be different if the pre-school was a little bigger but it sounds crowded, especially if there is only one table.

BalloonSlayer · 02/12/2010 10:58

It would bother me too. I'm astounded that a body as fussy as Ofsted would think this was OK.

Why would it bother me? Hard to say, I suppose . . .

I'd be concerned that the boys might start being boisterous (pretty unfair of me)

I'd be concerned that the dynamic of peaceful toddler pre-school had been lost (sounds like this is not the case so also unfair)

I'd be jealous that someone can home ed AND earn money at the same time. Wouldn't more people HE if they could take their kids in to work with them

I'd be pissed off if I was paying money for something (I am still for my youngest's pre-school place) and something irregular was going on

None of the above are reason enough for a proper complaint though. I think the strongest one in my case would be the jealousy - the real feeling of "How unfair is it that SHE can take her DCs out of an unsatisfactory learning environment and take them to work with her to educate them, but I can't."

cat64 · 02/12/2010 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SandStorm · 02/12/2010 10:59

Actually, I'd also be querying why/how she is the chair of the management committee? If she's not the manager which I don't think she is, this puts the manager in a very awkward position if they differ on issues as the management committee generally has the final say on things. I would check your constitution as you may find this is not allowed.

Danthe4th · 02/12/2010 11:03

I would be more concerned that the pre-school is financially viable with only 3 children on some days and not about to close.
Perhaps her bringing in her own children is the only way they can afford for the pre-school to open on those days.

Original poster

steppemum · 02/12/2010 11:04

lalalonglegs
the PATA said it was surprised at the situation but said the only was forward for me was to talk to the management committee. I don't want to do that if I ABU. I asked one friend with experience what she thought, again to see if IABU or not. She said not, if she had said I was BU, then I wouldn't have posted here.

I was in the village shop and someone turned to me and asked who those boys were in the pre-scholl and what were they doing there (I have never spoken to this person about school and pre-school, but they know my dd goes there. And I overheard someone walking past the pre-school when they were outside playing make a snide remark about the big boys so yes I was 'walking along the street' in effect when I hear both of those comments (the pre-school playground is right next to the village shop, so it isn't that surprising that you overhear comments when at the shop)

Please understand, I am not going round seeking supporters. If I was having a rant or trying to get a gang on my side, I would have tried to get support amongst the mums at the pre-school. I don't think that is right. I am trying to work out if this is something I should complain about or if it is just my problem. I am taking more time to ask people so as not to rush in cause upset and trouble in a small village. If it is my problem then I will keep quiet.

I spoke to the playleader to find out what the circumsatnces were, she is in charge, so it is courtesy to ask her.

OP posts:

peeringintothevoid · 02/12/2010 11:04

"And maybe posting in AIBU wasn't the best idea.."

Why not?? The OP is asking whether or not SIBU. Lately it seems that 'posting in AIBU' is seen as shorthand for 'asking to be savaged and insulted for posing a reasonable question'.

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