in thinking that DD will get nowhere with these GCSE options...

[PosyPanther]

DD is 13, so, in my opinion still a child, she changes her mind about pretty much everything daily, school shoes, whose her best friend, her favourite colour, you get the picture...

She has just had the first leaflet from school about GCSE option next year and want to pick health and social care (double award)human health and physiology instead of additional science, child development, psychology and sociology. She says she wants to do social work or primary teaching (or win the X factor )

I think she's mad. She's in the top set at school, level 5 across the board at primary school and is working at solid level 7s now. I would much prefer her to take at least two science GCSEs, history and geography instead of psych and sociology and a language with one choice left for whatever she fancies (but I'd prefer a second language or triple science.)

I can't see that having History, geography, french, german, separate science would disadvantage her in applying for ANY degree/career pathway? How do I convince her that some subjects actually are better than others? Her teachers are insisting all GCSEs are equal but I can't see that sociology is as hard as German or Physics? I'm worried she's going to close doors at 13...

YANBU, if she is capable of doing more rigorous academic subjects then that's what she should be doing. I would advise her to keep as broad a range of subjects as possible, including a language and a humanities subject. The subjects she has chosen have a lot of similarities, and she may find herself bored with the repetition.

Can she be bribed? Do you have any relatives with teenage children who are currently making their A level or university choices who could advise her?

Good luck - let her change her shoes as many times as she wants, but insist that you have an input into these choices as a payback!
(I am speaking as Mum of a 13 yr old DD, and this sort of bargaining forms a huge part of our lives!)

As other posters have said, all subjects are not equal.

If you can't convince her can you bribe her? (I'll risk the flaming but it worked when my parents did it to me and I realised later that they were right). Cash reward for A-Cs in the subjects that you know would be better?

I don't think you're being unreasonable. However saying you can't do that to a 13 yo might make her dig her heals in. When do the options have to be in? Could you let it drop for now and see how she feels after christmas? If she changes her mind as much as you say then she'll probably have a totally different take on it in a months time.

Is there a student/recent graduate family friend or relative who could maybe offer some advice.

This thread makes me sad about the lack of proper career advice. I do try and speak to any work experience teenagers we have at work.

Posy - I think that is an excellent menu of choices you are serving up to her there.

History is a very good one to have, well respected by unis (unless she hates it of course). And definitely a language.

Hope the pink netbook swings it for you!

I'm trying to post a comment from the new White Paper but it won't let me. Basically there is a renewed emphasis on academic subjects such as Maths, Sci, Eng plus a modern or ancient language, and History or Geography. If you pass all of these you will get a certificate of English Baccalaureate.

She absolutely must do additional science if there is any chance whatsoever that she might want to do a science A level. (And science A levels are valued for primary school teachers and quite probably social workers too.

IMO it is madness at 13 for a bright child to be ruling out taking any science A levels, so I would insist on additional science.

For the rest, I would recommend mostly mainstream well respected tried and trusted subjects, but with one or two options that she really wants to do thrown in for fun.

Letting her do her own thing & make her own decisions is all well and good, but she needs to accurately know what the consequences are, and it does sound as though she isn't getting accurate advice from school. Could she e-mail a few good university admissions departments and see what they would recommend for a selection of courses that she might be interested in? It's all very well saying you can take more GCSEs/A levels later in life, but it's not always that easy - especially for science subjects that have a practical element.

I think you need to tread carefully. Like almost3 my parents pushed me into doing what they wanted me to do for GCSE. I had to do one language and they made me study a second even though some days I struggle with English! I had no interest in the second language so got a D.

Try compromising with her and finding out why she wants to do these subjects. I got so angry with my parents making me study a second language that I changed my IT option to Drama. It hasn't held me back in my career in IT, but it would have been useful to have!

I have found that employers seem to have no interest in what I studied for GCSE or A-Level. Most employers ask for a C or above in Maths and English GCSE. I'll admit I have no idea what my staff have GCSEs in, they all have more than 5 A-C GCSEs, that's all that matters to me

cat64 - well done the HT of your DS's school!

Is this a private, or grammar school?

YAB a good parent. Her choices are not at all suitable. Proper science, at least 2 grades worth, should be compulsary. As for child development, psychology and sociology, they are non subjects at that level. If she wants to do social work or teaching in the future these subjects will be covered at a higher level.

Gcses should cover core subjects leaving as many options open as possible. If she really wanted to she could study the subjects she's mentioned at 16. However if she changes her mind/ wants to go to uni, she will find the Gcses she wants to do severely limiting. Even if she aced them all they would be regarded as being of less value than more traditional subjects.

As far as I'm aware, the reason these subjects are even on offer in schools these days boils down to league table positioning; they're easier to get higher results in, so increase the school's standing.

And I've sat in front of teachers on Information Evenings with DS1, boiling inside because the psychology teacher is cheerfully talking him in to taking her subject at GCSE, even though I know that you don't even need psychology A-level, let alone O-level, to read it as a degree subject.

He now admits it's rather dull as a subject (and that taking resistant materials DT instead of Engineering was a mistake.

Luckily he's opting for traditional A-levels (was deeply impressed by the physics teacher stressing how difficult, and hence how respected, the subject is).
We did have a wobbly moment when he insisted on speaking to the A-level PE teacher, but I think she blew it when she mentioned Wayne Rooney in connection with the syllabus!

I find it so cynical that schools are offering their brightest students choices that will limit their possibilities for the future.

And that's a good point that someone made about the peers she'll be surrounded by; the lessons I dreaded at that age were the ones where there weren't enough students to make sets, so all abilities were mixed. You really can do without the 'element' in class.

Start to look at prospectus and entry qualifications for courses she likes.See if her chosen subjects match.My Understanding is GCSE studied are looked at by UCAS as part of the application.

She needs some academic subjects in order to prepare herself for A Levels and further education. She can be a social worker or a teacher if she takes proper subjects - she doesn't need health and social care etc. These can be learned incidentally. Try and dissuade her, for her own sake

I am stunned that schools carry on pushing gcses and A-levels that the better Unis actively dislike. I know that if you want to study Law at uni the worst thing you can do is study it at A-Level. Psychology at A-Level is also considered a weak choice for a psychology degree. This had been true for decades and all private schools make sure the students know. Some state schools are screwing kids chances by not being honest with them.

I wouldn't count on it, LeQ (just lost a big post about DS's GS where he was persuaded to do psychology and almost A-level PE which we narrowly escaped).

The trouble here is that the 6th form is open to all-comers so wants to attract as many pupils as possible - fine, but don't try and persuade a classic maths/science student to take bloody PE!

I dont think you should make her do certain subjects, you're going to have to be a whole lot more subtle than that. If there is an older teenager/young adult she looks up to who is sensible, perhaps you could enlist their help to point her in another direction. We made the mistake of voicing our opinions probably a bit too strongly on GCE and A Level choices, it caused a host of problems. Some of them are so strong willed that if they are overtly forced into something they dont want to do, they wont do well anyway.

Keep gently reminding her how disappointed she would be if she inadvertently closed off any potential options for A Levels/Uni. Maybe you could do some online research together into entry requirements for degrees she might consider in the future, so she can see for herself what her wisest choices would be.

Best of luck

Oh and some of the 'ologies' are bloody difficult, my DD did Sociology (and triple science) and there was soooooo much work. Definitely not a soft option.

I toyed with going to a sixth form college- too long ago- instead of staying on at school for A-levels. I had the decision taken out of my hands when I was told 2 weeks before term began that the college wasn't running a course in the subject I was most sure I wanted to do because of lack of applications. Students = funding and they teach what the majority want and what will lift them up in the results tables. They were teaching the ologies and leisure and tourism courses!

Yes it is a real A-level. I actually asked the teacher how, exactly, she felt the students would benefit academically from learning all about Wayne Rooney!

Luckily the history teacher gave a good pitch and was actually himself, as a new staff member, that PE was being offered.

The point is that lots of students want to do it. There's nothing wrong with a course in PE that throws in biology and nutrition, the problem is when schools/colleges don't tell students that it's not going to be any good to them if they want to apply to do Biology at Leeds or Economics at Bristol.