in thinking that DD will get nowhere with these GCSE options...

[PosyPanther]

DD is 13, so, in my opinion still a child, she changes her mind about pretty much everything daily, school shoes, whose her best friend, her favourite colour, you get the picture...

She has just had the first leaflet from school about GCSE option next year and want to pick health and social care (double award)human health and physiology instead of additional science, child development, psychology and sociology. She says she wants to do social work or primary teaching (or win the X factor )

I think she's mad. She's in the top set at school, level 5 across the board at primary school and is working at solid level 7s now. I would much prefer her to take at least two science GCSEs, history and geography instead of psych and sociology and a language with one choice left for whatever she fancies (but I'd prefer a second language or triple science.)

I can't see that having History, geography, french, german, separate science would disadvantage her in applying for ANY degree/career pathway? How do I convince her that some subjects actually are better than others? Her teachers are insisting all GCSEs are equal but I can't see that sociology is as hard as German or Physics? I'm worried she's going to close doors at 13...

"And, not just to have faffed about with the fun bits."

Yep - a Health and Social Care degree is so much FUN.

Although on a more serous note as someone currently studying the above I do agree that it's better to know the nuts and bolts - hence me thinking that Biology, History and Psychology would have made life a little easier for me........

Yup. It's about trying to keep some balance. We had to choose maths, english language and lit., dual award or all three sciences, french, history or geography. We had loads of options for a-levels. Dropping the requirements makes schools look better in the league tables.

ragged - you're right, it shouldn't be like this, kids shouldn't be able to accidentally close off paths for themselves in the future (access to top universities) etc, as a result of choices innocently made at 13.

But unfortunately with the stupid system we have in the UK thats the way it is. Most state Schools are more interested in their place in the league tables than giving out honest advice.

Kids with parents who don't know or find out about these things are stuffed.

Its rubbish really.

I think it's really sad that children can drop some subjects at such a young age. I'd have liked to combine arts and science at A-level but timetabling prevented it. How stupid is that as a reason to not be able to study Chemistry??

I always think of the advice I was given when there are news stories about low numbers of state school pupils at Oxbridge.

When picking a college it wasn't a case of flick through a prospectus. There were only a handful that we were advised to apply to based on prior admissions behaviour. Some colleges wouldn't look favourably on applications because the school was private and some wouldn't consider pupils from a provincial day school! If you had relatives that were alumni some would be swayed and some would not respond well if you dressed too formally for interview!

It was a minefield but for me it had been mapped and flagged for me by the school. Anyone going in blind had their odds hugely reduced- they could lose before they filled in their name on the application.

YANBU!! Her teachers are mad. I would definitely push her to do at least the double science. Geography isn't that hard (Mum's a geog teacher and I did geog), German is the easiest of the languages IMO as the grammar is so straight forward. Let her choose one that she wants to do but push her to do sensible ones other than that.

There has be a balance to give her options and that doesn't sound like a balanced list.
I also know somebody with an MA in Social Work and a first class degree who is unemployed, she cannot get a permanent contract.

YANBU. I too am an admissions tutor and GCSEs are the FIRST thing we look at. Plenty of time for her to do fun stuff later; don't let her close down her options now.

sieglinde - can i email you a private question please ?

YANBU

Having been through the University application process myself during the last couple of years I have to point out that GCSE course choices really do make a difference.

Additionally, a lot of employers are now looking at GCSEs when recruiting new graduates.

Returning to education after making the wrong choices/taking unsuitable options the first time round is not easy, and with the way things are going it looks set to become even harder to do.

One of the Cambridge colleges (perhaps Trinity?) publishes a list of "core" academic subjects and what they view as "soft" options. Might be worth a look?

Yes. Think you can just reply to me?

I didn't realise that pupils, unless they were really struggling at school, were allowed to do less than double award Science. It seems crazy to me.

I don't understand why schools don't offer some of these less mainstream subjects as after school options. DD wants to do BTEC Dance, and if she gets into the Grammar they will teach her it outside of schools hours. That means she can still do a wide range of more traditional subjects during the school day.

I can see the point of dropping a third science or second language in order to do GCSE Music or Art and have a more rounded education. But what is the point of GCSEs in professional fields like Health when you can specialise in those as an adult if and when you choose them as a profession?

As for going back and gaining extra GCSEs and A levels as an adult, that's fine if the A level is Sociology and you can do it by distance learning. It possibly isn't that easy if you have to find the time to go somewhere and do Chemistry practicals because you dropped a lot of Science at 14.

I should add that I didn't do ANY "pure" science for STandard Grades (or Highers or CSYS) and still got into a good university.

Although - I'm not happy about vocational subjects being seen as something that is outside of "schooling". That somehow these vocations aren't "proper" jobs that children can aspire to do.

LeQueen, this is just wrong. Kids from ANY school have the same chance at Oxford, and if anything we bend over backwards to help eg Access candidates and Sutton Trust I get seriously annoyed by statements like this; all they do is put bright kids off applying. THAT IS WHY numbers from the state sector remain lower than I'd like.

Go with your gut OP. YANBU. If she's an able child then she should be pushed. Kids need to be pushed to achieve. If I let my kids do what they enjoy, they'd get A*'s at Facebookology and playing COD.

As an employer, I'd shake my head at those choices.

As a parent I'd ground my child for such a stupid idea!

Hi, without publishing my email on this site what can I do to help????

I think it depends on what you mean by vocational subjects. I certainly wouldn't make resistant materials an after school interest. It could form part of a balanced education in the same way that Art does.

The problem with some GCSE subjects that are considered vocational is that they don't put you at an advantage when applying for the actual job. Of course the jobs are proper jobs.

sieglinde - have you got a yellow flashing envelope by your log in details at the top of the page ? I've sent you through my life story war and peace

If she's bright (ie of an ability where she would expect to go on and do an academic as opposed to a vocational degree) she should not touch anything but traditional subjects at this stage. The good universities will turn their noses up and she will fail to learn to use the brainpower she has

If she's basically someone who 20 years ago would have gone to a polytechnic to do a vocational qualification, then let her do as she asks.

There is nothing wrong with vocational qualifications (we need more people with them) but for an academically bright person at this stage they close off rather than open up possibilities.

I don't know - I just hate this idea that because you're bright you should be doing "hard core" GSCE's and heading off for Oxford with an academic career ahead of you.

God forbid a bright student should want to do something more vocational (and equally god forbid a slightly less academic child should want to pursue an academic career in many schools too.....)

I guess with academic qualifications you can always take up a vocational career, the other way around it's impossible or an uphill struggle at the very least.