in thinking that DD will get nowhere with these GCSE options...

[PosyPanther]

DD is 13, so, in my opinion still a child, she changes her mind about pretty much everything daily, school shoes, whose her best friend, her favourite colour, you get the picture...

She has just had the first leaflet from school about GCSE option next year and want to pick health and social care (double award)human health and physiology instead of additional science, child development, psychology and sociology. She says she wants to do social work or primary teaching (or win the X factor )

I think she's mad. She's in the top set at school, level 5 across the board at primary school and is working at solid level 7s now. I would much prefer her to take at least two science GCSEs, history and geography instead of psych and sociology and a language with one choice left for whatever she fancies (but I'd prefer a second language or triple science.)

I can't see that having History, geography, french, german, separate science would disadvantage her in applying for ANY degree/career pathway? How do I convince her that some subjects actually are better than others? Her teachers are insisting all GCSEs are equal but I can't see that sociology is as hard as German or Physics? I'm worried she's going to close doors at 13...

Well, with GCSE Human Health and Physiology, she'll be fine to do A-level Biology afterwards.

Helpful?

dd won't be choosing her options without any input from her parents - I'll certainly be giving her a heavily guided hand

You do know she can take GCSEs after she leaves school yes? And that going to uni isn't actually a race?

If she is still so much of a child, let her do subjects she enjoys, get good grades and confidence, then she can always top them up alongside her A levels.

My sister is currently doing a GCSE in spanish over two terms, and she is predicted all a* a levels and a top uni, so it isn't the end of the world if the "wrong" choices are made now.

Let her own her own learning, she will work harder.

Although, stay away from the Btec. Employers don't know what they are.

Have a look at admission criteria for the jobs she's thinking of and start aiming for the grades/subjects she'll need.

And as she doesn't yet know for sure remind her to keep her options open - and that includes not taking the options designed for less academic students.

YANBU. She is 13 and doesn't understand the implications of her choices.Sadly the school will keep telling her/you that all GCSEs are equal because they want to keep up student numbers on all courses and that is their priority rather than your DDs future chances at uni.

I might get flamed for saying this, but healh & social care is really for the kids who are not so academic, not for a very bright girl like your DD.

You have suggested good solid choices that will stand her in good stead for the future. Did you know some unis still insist on at least a 'C' grade in a language at GCSE for any student admitted? But maybe if she's not really into languages one would be enough.

Then let her have 1 or 2 free choices of something she fancies. I don't think she needs history AND geography, one is fine.

To get her to agree, try bribery! That's what I did with my DD and she is glad now.

Honestly your DD will be thanking youi at 18!
Its a great pity some schools do not have their students' future welfare as a high priority.

I did Child Development GCSE, one of the 7 GCSE's I actually managed to get, because despite being very bright and on a special gifted child programme, etc, I was very naughty at school...

I got 3 A's at A level and a first class degree from a good uni (I discovered through Mumsnet that it is a Russell Group one, which apparently is important to some people)So she is not sealing her fate through her GCSE options.

A PhD in sociology one thing, GCSE sociology is another. I would absolutely not want either of mine doing this set of GCSE's if they are academic, especially as they will then try to follow them up with Psychology and Sociology A level which again, is not a top notch core academic A-level. Many of the Russell Group unis have explicit or secret lists of the types of subjects they want to see, and these are not them. That's what keeps top public schools at the top of the league tables for entry to great unis, they don't waste time with 'filler' subjects (or you might take them as an extra 5th A level!)

Bad advice to bright comprehensive school pupils is so maddening as it does limit your choices more later on (yes, fine if you do want to become a SW, what about a lawyer, medic or whatever?)

I did not have the choice of doing triple science at GCSE as my school did not do it at that time. My choices were Child development, CDT, Drama and media studies.

However A'levels included Maths and Physics and I now have a BSc (hons) and an MA.

I dont think GSCE choices matter that much as long as you are good at what you do! (Although I would rather DD did GSCE's rather than BTECs if she had acedemic intentions)

"You do know she can take GCSEs after she leaves school yes? And that going to uni isn't actually a race?"

Well both of those things are true, but if you miss a GCSE at the 'normal' age for doing them, that turns out to have closed important doors for you later on, then you have to delay whilst you catch up your qualifications.

And re going to uni being a race, whilst I don't agree that uni is the be all and end all for everybody, for a lot of people, getting into uni after A'levels is important, not least because a year's delay here, and another there, etc. is another year when parents are most likely to be essentially footing the bill. For some people this might be fine, for others, it might not.

I'm not in favour of shoe-horning everyone into uni and jobs if they're the wrong ones, but we don't all have the time and money to go back and correct bad decisions.

D

Not the Russell Group uni I went to. As well as Child Development, I also did woodwork

Yes her teachers are wrong. My DD has just gone to uni and we did lots of research/question asking about subject choices.

You have to be aware that for many A level courses you need to have done the GCSE.

Also if she wants to be a teacher she has to have at least one science GSCE. (so she doesnt really need to do 3) My DD hated science, even though she was in the top set. So we didnt insist she took 3.

Am afaid it is the health and social care that would worry me. She should be doing something more accademic.

Right, I am frantically searching uni prospectuses, do you think the following is fair and useful?
English
English Lit
Maths
Science
Additional Science as her 2nd Science choice

3 from triple science, French, Spanish, German, History, Geography or Religious Studies and 2 free choices? Either Child Development, psychology, sociology (which she's picked at the moment) or art or drama which I feel are at least a bit more traditional)

and me and DH will get her a netbook (probably in pink) to use for her studies?

Sorry, but to add another perspective on this...

I was a "bright" child and was always at the top of the class in high school. When choosing my GCSE options I was bullied by parents and teachers into taking subjects that I had absolutely no interest in whatsoever just because they were more academic. As a result, I lost all interest in school work and completely rebelled against everyone, refused college and university and got a crap job instead. It took until I was 25 to realise that I did want a good career and probably would have had one if I had had the opportunity to make my own decisions. I did return to my studies and now have 4 A-levels, a degree and a masters and will be doing my PhD next year afetr maternity leave.

By all means advise your daughter and arm her with plenty of information about A-level/degree/career opportunities and pathways, but bear in mind that forcing her into things she's adamant she's not happy about may backfire on you.

You know your daughter better than anyone, and maybe she will change her mind next week of her own accord anyway (you said she's not particularly decisive) but I think you should tread rather carefully.

Could there be a reason behind it like trying to avoid a girl or group of girls? eg if all the top set do history, science etc she will not be with them for the majority of the school day.

Could a teacher have a word. I can remember my science teacher being concerned and having a quiet word after class when I mentioned I was interested in doing an environmental science A level.

Tell her not to limit her options eg without science gcse she can't do science a level and cuts off a whole raft of career choices.

Have a look online at university entry requirements with her ..

I don't think so Dixiechick, BUT that is a good point, she doesn't much care for some of the louder, brasher girls in the lower sets, who I think might also gravitate towards her preferred options.

Any particular reason why you'd prefer her to pick Additional Science rather than GCSE HH&P? I'm not actually sure what the Additional Science syllabus covers, y'see; never heard of it before.

Must correct you Onetoomany, the top unis dont have a secret list of subjects, they have a list of soft subjects, and for many many courses candidates are allowed one of these subjets at A level.

Sorry havent got time to find them but if you google "soft subjects, a level, russell group" it should come up with a list.

My DD has got into a redbrick uni and one of her A levels was "shock horror" media studies. She was also accepted at all of her other 4 choices, which were also top unis.

Posy, I think what you have suggested is a good compromise, she gets to explore what she wants to do, but in a way that doesn't close doors for later on.

It might also be worth pointing out that there are some subjects you can do at A'level or even degree with no prior experience, so you don't 'gain' progress from having done them earlier on. E.g. AIUI, you can do A-level psych or sociology without having done the GCSE, so you lose nothing by not doing the GCSE, whereas the same doesn't apply to e.g. MFLs etc.

D

could there be a balance here.
There is a point, DH, was poorly advised and ended up taking stuff post 16 that didn't get him to a decent uni, although he was bright, it is important, even gcse i think?
But i took re gcse to the consternation of my parents - 20 plus years ago that was as 'soft' as it got in my school! - but my other gcses were more traditional. perhaps let her choose one or two soft choices and then the rest more academic?

YANBU.

This thread makes me feel a bit sad - having regrets about your own choices is one thing but being forced to do something else and regretting that?

Would you or Unis prefer that she get an A in sociology or a C or D in a language????

I think that additional science is an absolute must, and the rest is negotiable.

YANBU

It is time to put on your reinforced Mother helmet and tell her that some GCSEs are crap. It is up to you, I'm afraid, as I understand that many schools are "forbidden" (by whom, I do not know) from promoting one GCSE over another. So if one of their brightest students wants to do Health and Social Care over French, then so be it. This did happen in my sil's school, a rural comp, and she got hauled over the coals for advising one of her most able students that her choices were not going to stand her in good stead.

I think that knowledge is power and you have the knowledge and the responsibility to step in and prevent her mucking things up for herself.

I think doing science and "additional science" is the new way of doing the "double science" I did at school. I'm not sure many universities would look as favourably at the HH&P, or necessarily even consider it as a science subject tbh.

Posy, YANBU. The subjects she currently feels are her preferences are quite weak. This is not reflective of her ability level. Sorry to be blunt here, but as the parent please save her from herself!

As for her teachers saying all subjects are equal.... this actually makes me angry. Culture of underachievement. Pupils deserve better.