in thinking that DD will get nowhere with these GCSE options...

[PosyPanther]

DD is 13, so, in my opinion still a child, she changes her mind about pretty much everything daily, school shoes, whose her best friend, her favourite colour, you get the picture...

She has just had the first leaflet from school about GCSE option next year and want to pick health and social care (double award)human health and physiology instead of additional science, child development, psychology and sociology. She says she wants to do social work or primary teaching (or win the X factor )

I think she's mad. She's in the top set at school, level 5 across the board at primary school and is working at solid level 7s now. I would much prefer her to take at least two science GCSEs, history and geography instead of psych and sociology and a language with one choice left for whatever she fancies (but I'd prefer a second language or triple science.)

I can't see that having History, geography, french, german, separate science would disadvantage her in applying for ANY degree/career pathway? How do I convince her that some subjects actually are better than others? Her teachers are insisting all GCSEs are equal but I can't see that sociology is as hard as German or Physics? I'm worried she's going to close doors at 13...

(LeQ - apols for spelling errors, don't look at me like that )

I dont think there is anything wrong with child development, travel and tourism or health and social care if thats what you want to do. I did child development and then did a degree in Childhood Studies and my job is my whole life. I love everything about it and I am helping some of the most disadvantaged families in society. The job has so many benefits and you go home every night thinking you have really made a difference.

Same goes for Health and Social Care my friend does it and helps the Learning Disabled and those in supported living. sHe goes above and beyond for her job and even though it is low waged she also makes a difference every day.

I dont think these are 'stupid, worthless subjects'

Yes, but in looking at subjects purely from a GCSE point of view, if you are interested in working with children, that's fine and dandy, but you could do that with a slew of academic subjects under your belt. What you can't do is study Childhood Development GNVQ, then change your mind at 19 and hope to study to be a dentist, or whatever, with that subject under your belt.

Why restrict your choices at the age of 14?

I agree with Getorf - although I also think we have to be careful of how people are treated on these threads. It must be hard as a young person within the system to see that it is probably flawed, and that many, many people/employers will judge by them by a set of standards that differ from those given to them at school. Good teachers and informed parents will hopefully be able to guide both academic, and non-academic students appropriately - but unfortunately not all children will have good teachers or informed parents.

i know i said i was going to leave but i've come back to see what more insults you can throw at me,

normally my grammar in essays is actually pretty good but i never use it on the internet on a forum etc...

there are still lots of jobs in the publc sector i'm pretty sure my uni would not lead me into a career i'm never going to get a job in as that will effect their stats tonnes!!
I could also go into industry and i'm doing a module in that at the moment which i'm finding suprisingly interesting so i may follow that path.
basically I don't really know what I want to do, like most 19 year olds tbh

yes that is my course...want to mock it more now that you know what uni it's at?

talking about the 'science background' part...no you don't need science for it but for one our 1st and 2nd year core modules are quite scientific and in 1st year we do human biology and are studying alongside Bsc Biology students. a lot of what we do i science related.

thanks guys for potentially ruining every bit of ambition I have and encouraging my to drop out of uni at this stage. It's nice to see that there are so many nice people in the world

The two young men I spoke about with their useless degrees in gambling and football are VERY bitter about the whole subject. They realise they are in huge debt for absolutely NOTHING. They wish they had left school at 18 and gone straight to work/studied to be a hairdresser/etc.

They also wish that someone with a bit of nous had TOLD THEM not to bother wasting their time when they were 18. As it was, they think that their school and the university itself was completely deficient in responsibility.

Mind you, they also needed to take responsibility for themselves. They should have realised themselves that bloody football and gambling were worthless subjects for 3 years study. However, what can you do at the age of 18, faced with education professionals saying 'yeah, go for it'. And their parents knew nothing either. They were the first kids in their family to go to uni. Of course their parents were going to encourage and be proud.

They were utterly let down by the people who were in the best position to advise them correctly. No wonder they are embittered.

They are not really in debt though if you dont earn the wage you dont pay it back. I doubt I will ever pay any of it back and most people that take those courses dont even think of it as debt.

Snowy - you've started so you must finish otherwise it's even more of a waste nobody would deny that.
BUT the public sector is being slashed, the conservative government doesn't like what the Labour government has done with children centers, sure start etc they want people to be self sufficient.

I am telling you thing because I was an estate agent at 19 in 1990 and kept getting sacked and was told I was useless. Little did I know we were in the middle of the biggest house price crash this century, greater forces were at work. At the time I just thought it was me :(

You are going to have to get a first, 2.1 minimum as an employer any less goes in the bin in my office because people are of the belief you get a 2.1 for turning up. You'll also need to do shed loads of research and start gaining work experience if you aren't already.
Proof read your CV and you do need to work on your spelling and grammar, it is important.

snowflake69 - But they are in debt when it comes to applying for other loans such as mortgages the student debt is taken into consideration therefore reducing what they can afford to borrow.

No it doesnt I got a mortgage and was told you dont have to declare it if you arent earning enought to be paying it back and neither did my husband. We both got a mortgage on a place down South and didnt declare it. It doesnt matter really.

Snowflake - of course they are in debt. And it will affect them in the future. A 20 grand millstone round their necks.

What a mad attitude to have.

Getor, my DP studied such a 'worthless degree' and spent his twenties in the USA where he was well paid and received many many awards in football coaching. He now runs his own coaching business and couldn't be happier.

He simply isn't academically minded and if he had given in to pressure from his parents he would be in the same position as his brother who did science a levels, but none good enough to get onto a medicine degree and now works in a bar at 29 years old.

Oh dear Snowy - I was on your side (kind of) but that last comment was a little foolish, no??

What you are saying is that you never intend to earn any more than a fairly low wage? And that anyone who does these courses will never earn more than a low wage, hence not having to pay back their fees? Surely you are playing straight into the hands of people who tell you that the courses only equip you for MacDonalds?

Don't have ambition and aspirations to do well? Yes, it doesn't have to be in a 'traditional high paying industry - but even in tradiational low paying areas such as healthcare/social care, if you get promoted or become a manager you will probably move into a wage bracket where you will be paying back fees.

It is a debt.

I am snowflake not snowy. In my profession you could never get 20k even if you were a manager so to me it generally isnt relevant

Disciples - funnily enough, my brother works in america as a soccer coach, has done for years and is doing very nicely out of it. However even he said that a football degree is utterly worthless. All he needed was the FA level 2 coaching certificate. You don't need to study football at uni for 3 years in order to be able to work in the industry - far from it.

Snowflake - you are talking absolute rot. Grow up.

This is true, but he made a lot of contacts during his time at uni.

There's also the element of lie skills that uni gives you, and in a different way to moving out and working at 18.

LeQueen et al I have shown this debate to my Year 11 - 14 class aged 15 to 19 who are following a Level 3 Business Studies BTEC (sorry about that, but the QCF recognises its equivalency to A-level in terms of university entry). They are offended but amused to see that a bunch of, in their view 'stuck up' and 'out of touch' people are so obsessed with decisions they may or may not make about going to university. How charitable of you all to be worried about the debt they may get into. I personally wonder how any of you would fare in a hands-on job eg social work with the service users of today. Not as well as them, I suspect. They have excellent ICT and interpersonal skills and reslience far in advance of that displayed here, they took their GCSEs a year early and are now taking a mixture of A-levels and Level 3 BTECs, and my School is rightly proud of them. They are the young people of today, getting ready to go into today's world. They will probably do better than your DCs with the traditional/academic quals you aspire to for them. How sad for your children that you are so out of touch with today's world. I hope they take no notice of your misguided and arrogant attitudes, you will shoot yourselves in the foot if you attempt to control their lives. My social-work qualified daughter on 30k shares her Hackney office with a 25-year old law graduate who could not progress in his field and is therefore working as a Social Work support assistant on £12K less than her ... be afraid, be very afraid
love and kisses from Level 3 BTEC Business x

PS As for your (collective) treatment of Snowy, I hope that she will be succesful and help to pay your pensions during her long and succesful career, as it seems to me that most of you are expecting to rely on external sources of income, I don't see you out there earning your own

well basically i'm not overally bothered about the wage i earn. as long as i can live off of it i'm happy. I'd rather be happy and content with my life than a work-a-holic person who hates their life.

trust my i've seen what jobs can do to people...my dad comes in from work at 6ish eats dinner then sits on his laptop till midnight maybe past than some nights then often gets up at 6 to do more...I really don't want that in my life...

no i'm not 100% sure what i'm doing, no one ever is! but i will get a job at the end of my degree! I'm too determined for this not to work. It's nice to know that you lot are pleased I'm at least trying.
part of the reason I'm at uni is to gain the most amazing experience ever. I've had to deal with things here that have hugely changed me in a positive way that I would never have managed if I worked full time and lived at my parents (which yes I would be doing since the house prices at home are insane)

I really cannot believe there are such heartless people out there as you lot

Apologies for my confusion Snowflake. I am genuinely surprised that there are jobs that degree qualified people are doing where there is no chance of earning £26K per annum. Pretty shocking really.

I know what you mean ref the debt - I know it isn't included on credit searches etc. What I find amazing is someone trying to saddle themselves with a mortgage if they earn so little that they are not paying back a student loan. I also find it a bit that they are prepared to take on a mortgage etc but not also factor in paying off what else they owe.

I am obviously a mug, as I did both whilst working in social care.

snowy - I work in the public sector, have friends and family who work in other sections of the public sector. Morale and job opportunities are at rock bottom. I'm not being mean, I'm not encouraging you to jack your course in. But I think it would be very sensible for you to get as much experience and contacts in industry as you can.

Albert - agreed with most of your post, tbh - but a bit confused with your final point. I can't speak for everyone on this thread, but I have worked in a range of fields and gradually moved up the ladder in terms of seniority and salary. I work, and always have apart from 6 months maternity leave. If I didn't have a DH, I earn easily enough to support myself, pay a mortgage and bring up DD. I suspect the same is true for most others on this thread.

Albert - not out of touch, but living in the real world. The real world where employers can pick and choose who they employ and will in 99% of cases choose candidates who have decent qualifications.

I went through a period of hiring a couple of months ago, you look through dozens of CVs, and frankly I weeded out those candidates who had woolly qualifications and degrees from lesser universities.

And that is the real world at work. All may be sunny to you in the public sector, however in private sector industries it is a harsh world which is pretty black and white.

Hence why I steered my daughter away from worthless subjects, because frankly I know how harshly they are judged in the workplace.

It is people like you who waste young people's time by encouraging them to study subjects which are proven to be useless.

albertcamus - of course the difference is for the Law graduate he is currently earning the least amount he ever will, times will change and he'll have his day. Your social work daughter unless they are hard faced bitches will burn out in 5 years and end up on SSP. When they then try and get a job in the real world they'll be lucky to be paid £12k, nevermind £12k less.
I wouldn't wish social work as a career on my worst enemy, my friend looked like she'd had a face lift the week after she'd left.

And Business Studies as a subject is pretty laughable - those candidates with Bus Studies degrees were weeded out as well. We will tell you how business works - the automotive industry is notoriously tough. What we DON'T need is the Manchester Metropoliotan's universities dozy minded view of what they believe 'business' constitutes. That will be about as relevant as Alan Sugar.