in thinking that DD will get nowhere with these GCSE options...

[PosyPanther]

DD is 13, so, in my opinion still a child, she changes her mind about pretty much everything daily, school shoes, whose her best friend, her favourite colour, you get the picture...

She has just had the first leaflet from school about GCSE option next year and want to pick health and social care (double award)human health and physiology instead of additional science, child development, psychology and sociology. She says she wants to do social work or primary teaching (or win the X factor )

I think she's mad. She's in the top set at school, level 5 across the board at primary school and is working at solid level 7s now. I would much prefer her to take at least two science GCSEs, history and geography instead of psych and sociology and a language with one choice left for whatever she fancies (but I'd prefer a second language or triple science.)

I can't see that having History, geography, french, german, separate science would disadvantage her in applying for ANY degree/career pathway? How do I convince her that some subjects actually are better than others? Her teachers are insisting all GCSEs are equal but I can't see that sociology is as hard as German or Physics? I'm worried she's going to close doors at 13...

Difference is - snowy is 19 and you are?

Heaping vitriol make you all feel good?

You are scornful, demeaning, condecending and tearing strips off someone trying to make a go of things.

Round of applause all around. What role models you are.

snowy91
errm they do actually have degrees they're registered nutritionists my mum works in a childens centre with a registered nutritionists

Not at the three centers we currently use - though it may be something that is area dependent or may be coming in. Would have thought it would have come up in your research to be honest.

snowy91
if you don't go to the best public school in the UK then you may as give up on your life

Well neither I nor DH did - in fact one of my siblings did not go to university at all and we are all happy full filled people. In fact most people where we live have not gone to public school or any kind of university and most seem happy and doing well.

I can not send my dc to public school and university will be a huge drain - on both their future earning and our resource come that time.

I think you sound young and rather worrying naive ( with massive unattractive chip on shoulder) but obviously things can and probably will work out for you eventually - they do for most people. So good luck.

Le queen i dont give a fuck if you give a fuck about my opinion. It is obvious that you wouldnt.

But maybe snowy gives a fuck about yours and i would hope that you had some element of a concience about you given that you have totally belittled her...

But hey ho, words on a screen right?

She reacted to being made a scapegoat. She is young and maybe naive to a degree, and dont think she deserved the flaming. It certainly was not constructive critisism.

public health campaigns are pointless since you have a nutrition related educational background

No I do not. I have a good science back ground - but G.C.S.E double science - and no A-levels in biology - did the other sciences. I do however read - and as I have DC to cook for I have educated myself. I have no qualifications in the area - but have sought out knowledge from reliable sources.

I also believe that there is little evidence government food health campaigns have had any effect on people behavior and they are often mired in big business politics. Again something I would have thought you would have been aware of.

itsybitsy08
She reacted to being made a scapegoat. She is young and maybe naive to a degree, and dont think she deserved the flaming. It certainly was not constructive critisism.

Probably true - still her spouting on obesity are bloody ignorant and annoying.

Le queen - not too hard see -
I do agree with your last statement in particular (although im sure you dont give a fuck either way)

Just felt sorry for her, that was alot to take i think.

I didn't know GCSE's in health and social care (double award) human health and physiology existed.

I don't see what you could learn in any depth at GCSE level. Heath and social care to me are subjects you study in higher education after you have studied GCSE.

PS this looks like snowy's diet and health course

Do you know what? I normally pay no attention to discussion about bullying or vipers on Mumsnet but this thread has really brought out the worst.

It's one thing to debate GCSEs and their validity. It's one thing to debate how much input parents should have on their children's choices. These are interesting, worthwhile discussions.

But mature, supposedly successful women ripping into a 19 year old, picking apart her grammar, telling her everything she is working for is worthless? Revolting. I'm not quite sure how you can feel ok with yourselves.

And LeQueen, both of the women I've mentioned are successful. The younger one is completing her masters and already has a placement in her new career and the older lady is moving onto further education and research. (I believe she may be applying for a doctorate in her field.) Neither is earning hundreds of thousands - they are in caring industries, but they are enjoying life and feel fulfilled by what they are doing at this point in their lives. That's success imo although I'm sure you're probably scoffing.

Money is useful for keeping you housed, clothed and fed. It buys you the space to explore options in life. But if it comes at the expense of being a decent, compassionate human then I'd rather be in a cardboard box.

'This thread is awful.
The attitudes of some and the offensive sweeping generalisations.
I feel seriously sorry for some of your children. God forbid they should do what they enjoy.
Really shocking that you would think forciably railroading your children into some thing they dont want to do is acceptable, so you can crow to others you feel are as far up the social and academic scale as you. At the expense of your childs happiness.'

I've just come back to this thread. Ds has been reading it, and having had various spirited discussions about options last year, he said to me that he was so glad I'd pushed the point and persuaded him to take the options he's doing at IGCSE, as he thinks it will help with A level options and Uni. He is 15 and in Year 10, so after a while the kids do see the light and appreciate that parents can be right at times.

Every qualification I have sat - someone has come along and said it was worthless - dumbed down, not worth the paper. Then there are all the people sneer at actually attending university. Unfortunately these are the times we live in and it is very common.

I encountered this with my first set of exams G.C.S.E so I am surprised that Snowy has not at aged 19. Same things with the grammar and spelling - I had encountered some very nasty reactions to poor spelling and grammar prior to 19 it is not nice but is a powerful and painful way to learn that presentation matters and poor presentation can lead to your message being lost.

I think telling her to abandon a degree course when in the second year is wrong. I do think she needs to start going to the careers office and doing some proper research and get off her martyrs cross.

Bet the science bit was really, like, well hard

Does not mean the course is not a good spring board to bigger and better things.

Scaryteacher, I put my sixpence worth in earlier on this thread. I agree completely that part of our job as parents is to guide our DCs into making choices which will be of long term benefit to them. I didn't have to guide DD1 too much on her GCSE choices as her choices were good ones. We had a bit more discussion about her A level choices. She chose 3 very academic ones and a BTEC! I was fairly horrified but she emailed the admissions office of our nearest (Russell Group) university and asked their opinion. They told her that her choice was fine and for the particular course she was interested in might even be an advantage, provided she gets good grades in her academic subjects.
However, I agree withcarmen that this thread has degenerated into something more than a discussion about grades. I think some posters should reflect on some of what they have said, particularly to snowy.

Interesting thread this, not least because it highlights the differences between what different people see as a "worthwhile" life. To some people, a worthwhile life is a highly salaried one and anything that does not come under that heading simply falls into the pit of "we just don't go there".

Others may reflect that high salaried jobs are going to be scarce on the ground under any circumstances and that the majority of the population do actually manage to jog along quite happily without them. And that society as a whole does actually depend on a large number of people taking up debts and accepting that they will never get rich- because we can't live without nurses or teachers and we don't particularly want to live without actors and booksellers and museum staff. The majority of which are never going to get rich- but they do need to be educated.

Even for those of us for whom money is not the main concern (I managed a student debt 20 years ago- and paid it back before I married, my children have been taught to be frugal), the question of options is still an important one. Having two children of widely varying abilities and interests, I have had to think about this one quite seriously.

If ds remains the same person in secondary school (not very academic, not driven, with little ambition), then I think it would be unkind and counterproductive to force him into GCSE options that he doesn't want to do simply because I think he ought to go to university. (My parents tried that with my brother for a bit and it was a disaster: being the son of academics and the brother of future academics did not make him an academic) If ds, then, remains the same and wants to do something vocational, then he has my blessing and I shall try to advise him as best I can along those lines.

Dd otoh is very academic, it is easy to see that she reads difficult things for pleasure and she has voiced ambitions that involve higher education. If she comes to me and says she wants to do health and social care for a GCSE, I shall point out that this is not the way to achieve her dreams and I shall do my best to talk her out of it.

Horses for courses.

adding to my post:

Yes, student debt is a worry. But I had a student loan and I paid it back before I had children. My parents may not have taught me the best way to get a well paid job, but they did teach me to be frugal and make the most of whatever money I did earn. Worked just as well: I have never felt I needed a well paid job.

as ever agree with Cory's post. Not all our children are going to be academic high fliers/future 6 figure salaried professionals.

Snowy - I'm a bit concerned that you may be focussing on public sector job opportunities when you finish your course - you mention children centres and PCTs, children centres are I believe already subject to funding cuts, and PCTs are due to turn into groups of GP consortia. Try and look at other uses for your degree as well.

I don't think this thread has been bullying. i happen to agree with LeQ's every word on the subject.

Frankly I think that higher education establishments should be ashamed of themselves. They are touting worthless degress to kids who are, frankly, not academic. Which is FINE. Not everyone should feel that they should have to go to uni. They can do something just as qworthwhile without a degree. However young people should NOT be encouraged by stupid schools (who want to get up their figure) to attend crap unis and study worthless courses.

I know two kids who are in excess of £20K of debt in their early twenties, because they WASTED THEIR TIME studing Gambling Studies at the university of Salford, and Football Studies at Southampton Solent uni. Shame on the crappy universities for offering such courses, and shame on their 6th form for not being honest with them and advising them not to waste their time or money. They have both graduated now - one is unemployed, one is working at Gala bingo. It is a disgrace.

I totally agree with boffinmum who said that Child Development is the type of thing studied by teenage mums in referall units. You can add to that any BTEC or GNVQ course taught in years 10 and 11. Anyone who thinks differently is completely deluding themselves. It is up to you as a parent to steer your kids away from stupid worthless subjects such as these. My daughter was not allowed to study any of them. And now, after seeing which kids are studing travel & tourism/textiles/health and social care, she is pleased that I steered her away from them.

BTW, I was a teenage mother. I commenced a Open Univesrity diploma in management in public sector when I was 18. THANKFULLY a friend told me that I was completely wasting my time in doing this, and steered me into giving that up after a term, and studying something which was more relevant to the job i was doing at the time (engineering). I thank god I listened. If I had carried on I would have had a worthless degree and would have probably doing a dozy job. As it is i was a roaring success in engineering, have got a bachelors and masters degree in aeronautics, and have got a brilliant career built on the back of it.

Yes snowy is working hard, but not necessarily at the right thing, and perhaps she DOES need her eyes opening.