to have expected more?

[compromise]

Have namechanged...

DH and I have been married for 2 years. We have a 15 month old DD. From the outset, we agreed that we would have an uber traditional home set up. I have always wanted to have a family and be a SAHM. In return for his supporting us financially, I do everything else. And when I say everything, I mean everything. Every night feeding. Every scrap of housework, all the cooking and pretty much all of the childcare. I bring him all of this his coffee in bed every morning and make him a lunch to take to work. The same rules apply on weekends. He sleeps in late, I bring his coffee to him in bed.

When we first agreed our roles, he seemed thrilled. And I have been happy to fulfil my end of things. It seemed a sacrifice worth making to enjoy being at home with DD. And I do love him, so bringing him coffee etc was not just a chore.

But in the past few months, he has become more and more unhappy. He has never loved his work (works in IT) but has become increasingly resentful of it. He hates the people, the stress, his boss...everything.

A few weeks ago, he had a sort of 'breakdown'. He has been signed off work for 6 weeks now and has recently announced to me that he feels our set up is 'not even' and he wants to equalise it. I asked him to elaborate. He said he thought it would be nice if we both worked and part time and just sorted out the house/childcare stuff as and when it was needed. No fixed agreements.
He told me he felt that I did not make an equal contribution and did not 'pull my weight'. Were it not for my jaw dropping to the ground, I would have walked out there and then.

And to be frank, I'm incredulous about this breakdown. He seems very happy to potter around the garage, building various things and going shopping for tools and car parts and the like. He sleeps in 'til midday every day, stays up late and seems generally content. He laughs and jokes about and then when I remind him about his fragile state of mind (by asking how he is feeling etc), he will change tack and tell me how tired he is. He says he is not ok but there is little evidence to the contrary. I am still doing everything I was doing before plus extra (now he's home all day, I make his lunch, bring him tea and snacks etc).

I always believed that compromise and sacrifice were necessary for a happy marriage. I'm not afraid to put in some hard graft and put his interests before my own at times. But I feel increasingly taken for granted. There seems to be no give and take here.

And now...now he has the gall to say things are not equal.

So tell me MN, before I lose my mind...AIBU?

Sorry it's a long one.

[frgr]

Well, H and I both work part time (I do Mon-Wed, he does Wed-Fri with nan's or next door neighbour babysitting on the crossover Wednesdays), so I've been in the position your H is suggesting. But a few words of wisdom:

1. This only works if your H genuinely does 50% of the childcare and housework. Everything in your post makes my alarm bells ring that, basically, you'll just be working part time and doing all the stuff you have been doing!
   

1. It's very hard to find employers willing to go for part time work in male dominated sectors. I work in the charity sector, and stayed with my employer, no issues going 60% of the time. But H is in IT, and thus earns more but alongside other blokes. Even though he's a very talented programmer and his PM was desperate to keep him, they refused 60% contract and H had to leave for a new one. This did result in several months of stress. No guarantee your H could pull it off.
   

But..

If he does step up and do his share, you'll both get to be very involved in bringing up the little ones :) This is what H was missing, before. It felt like he saw them for a hug before bed, and then "see you next weekend" I also resented the fact that we've studied to the same level academically but had no NI contributions or pension, or even ability to hold a conversation about my industry quicker than I'd realised!

So.. your H's idea can work. But i'm suspicious about whether he's really thought about the implications of any of this, rather than "i'm fed up with work and want to cut down my hours". You need to support each other as part of a team, and so far IMHO your H hasn't been doing that - he'll have even less incentive to do it if his plan comes to fruition now!

[BalloonSlayer]

I think you need to write a list of day to day tasks for "whoever is not in paid work that day."

Something like, in rough chronological order.

Get up to DD in night, see to needs
Get DD up, change, breakfast
Make coffee for partner not in paid work that day (PNIP)
Make packed lunch for PNIP
Wash dishes
Do x loads of washing
Hang out washing
Take DD to toddler group
Hoover
Make DD lunch
Make own lunch
Wash up
Put DD down for nap
While DD asleep, iron
Make sure enough food in house for next two days
(If not go to supermarket)
(Unpack shopping and put away)
Play with DD or take to park
Put away washing and ironing
Bleach toilet
Prepare dinner for self and PNIP
Prepare tea for DD
Give DD her tea
Tidy up all toys
Give DD her bath and put to bed
Finish dinner for self and PNIP
Serve dinner
Wash up, and put away dishes

Try not to put anything snide on it, just what you will expect to be done when you are out at work.

Remind him that one day every weekend you will be sleeping in.

Tell him excitedly about the agencies you have registered for.

Suggest that you line up a few agencies to go and see on one day, which will be work-like, then you can both have a trial run.

TBH if I were in your position I would quite like to work part time with someone else doing all the childcare and wifey stuff at home.

If he agrees you might find you really enjoy it.

[BreconBeBuggered]

If you keep the place Stepfordly spotless, I daresay he can't even see a lot of what needs to be done. I probably wouldn't either. Make sure he knows you won't be killing yourself keeping up these standards if you get a job. In fact, cut down right now and see if he notices.
Surely he can see that childcare is not something that can be dealt with 'as and when', though?

[compromise]

I'm back...courtesy of Peppa Pig.

Leaving him with DD for a day, or trying to split housework is not an option at the moment.

I brought up the subject, saying that I would start to look for a job and that we should work out something with regards to the rest (the rota idea).

He refused. He refused to discuss any kind of seperation of housework/childcare and the next morning when DD got up, I asked him if he was going to get up and take her downstairs for breakfast, he said no.

He says he is too tired to do anything right now. And he has been too tired to do anything for weeks now.

I haven't made an issue of it. I just let it go and carried on as normal.

I hear those of you suggesting that it is me being unreasonable here. I'm open to that possibility.

But I feel I have been pretty supportive here, I have actively started looking for work. I have supported him in all this.

Meanwhile he is currently still curled up in bed at midday for what feels like the hundredth day in a row.

What more can I do??

[compromise]

Laquitar - Of course he is more than a breadwinner. I love him. He's funny and smart and sweet.

But at the moment, it is hard to sing his praises. I may sound clinical. But I feel I need to be at the moment.

[Casmama]

Stop being so bloody supportive. Tell him that its tough shit, you are tired to but there are things needing done. You are enabling his behaviour and he has no reason to change it because you are there smiling and allowing him to be lazy and selfish

[frgr]

Well if your H refuses to do his 50% of the in-house work whilst doing 50% of the out-house work, it's not a realistic long term plan.

You need to make your H wake up, but I don't know how to advise on that one. I can only advise as someone on the other side, who has managed obtain the 3-days-a-week-each situation we worked long and hard to engineer.

Your H sounds depressed, re-reading all of this. Or immature. It's hard to know, reading on a forum, what is motivating your H into being such a shite husband and father. Sorry

[Hullygully]

kill him

[pottonista]

Just popping in to say that as someone whose DP had a breakdown (and it wasn't in inverted commas, it was SERIOUS) I think you need to talk to him a bit more.

My DP worked horribly long hours in a horribly stressful job with a horrible boss, and when he finally cracked it took him 6 months to be ready to work again, and another year to be fully firing on all cylinders again. A few posters here have responded with cynicism about his [ironic quotes] fragile mental state [ironic quotes]. But burnout is a fragile physical state as well as mental one. If that's happening to your DH then please take it seriously. He may be a mess, and not just malingering and exploiting you at all.

For my DP, who was used to working hard, being able to push himself and earning a salary to match, it was a horrible dent to his confidence. If your DH was unhappy at work already, I can easily see how the pressure of being the sole earner might have tipped him over the edge - especially with the economy as dodgy as it is right now. He could be really depressed. He could be desperate and panicking, thinking he won't ever be able to provide for his family again. He could be feeling devastated at having made a mess of his career. He may be frantic at the idea that he's going to have to be trapped in a job he hates for the foreseeable future, while you get to spend time with the DC.

It sounds as though you're really frustrated at having to look after both him and your DC. Obviously I don't know the details of your situation. But you seem to be pooh-pooh-ing the possibility that his condition is serious, and for that I think you're being a bit U. At least try and find out.

[MUHAHAHADascheese]

Tell him you don't want to play according to the scenario he's set out.

Tell him you're willing to discuss changing all of this once he's given you some kind of idea of how he thinks the day to care looking after your DD and the house will work.

Sorry to say this, but it's no good keep saying on here you don't want it whilst attempting to do his bidding, if you've not told him there is a problem he wan't necessarily see there is one.

[frgr]

Could you print this thread and leave it next to his bed in the morning? Sometimes being truthfully honest whilst giving someone space to comprehend what you're trying to say works wonders.

[Chil1234]

"eanwhile he is currently still curled up in bed at midday for what feels like the hundredth day in a row."

Suggest he sees a GP. He could easily be depressed or suffering from chronic fatigue rather than merely antagonistic/lazy. If he refuses to go to the doctor then you make more of a fuss.... and if he goes to the doctor and there's nothing physically/mentally wrong then he has no excuses.

[compromise]

For the record, my DH's job:

He has been offered the chance to work from home when/if he returns. He can work flexible hours. Generally he works 9.30am til 5.00pm. it's a pretty nice set up really.

It's not as though I'm forcing him out the door at 5 only to return at 8.

We don't live a lavish lifestyle. I don't ask him to fund extravagant things for me.

Just sayin'...

[FindingMyMojo]

seems to me you've laid yourself down by the front door & he's still wiping his feet on you.

You've done everything around the home including catering to his every whim & neither of you are happy. Clearly it's not working. The answer to everything isn't necessarily going all 60's housewife/working disconnected hubby - might seem like a great idea on paper but it's not working for you is it?

So why not try part time work & relieve DH of some of the financial burden? Clearly this will only work if he takes on half of the work at home & re your DC as well. Might be a bit of a (HUGE) shock to him when he realises just how things will need to change in order to be 'equal'. On the flip side perhaps being more involved in your DC's upbringing will give him a sense of purpose he may be lacking?

Be careful though OP, I think it could be very easy in your situation for you to end up working AND doing everything around the house while he works & tinkers in shed.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Tell him you're not happy to get a part time job without certain things being agreed.

And then don't do anything else. Wait for him to make a move. Your nice-nice act isn't working.

And stop bringing him his fucking coffee in bed. Take care of your daughter, do the basic housework, stop killing yourself.

[compromise]

Re. the breakdown. He did go see the GP weeks ago. That's how he was signed off work.

I know I sound incredibly cold towards someone who is might be depressed, but deep down, I think he's putting it on. I think he has found a handy way of getting a few months off work, but still be paid.

I feel awful saying that...but really, when he's up and about he's fine. And he has no lack of energy for his own hobbies and interests.

Something does not quite fit.

[whatdoiknowanyway]

well said Litchick, Laquitar, Fidningmymojo and especially Pottonista.
You don't get signed off for 6 weeks for minor problems. And how callous to refer to your husband's issue in inverted commas as a 'breakdown'

"I don't ask him to fund extravagant things for me " what century are you from for heavens sake. Women fought and suffered for equality not to faff around on MN whilst their daughter watches Peppa Pig.

Sorry, but you sound so ridicuously entitled and self centred I'm finding it hard to have any sympathy with you.

[catsmother]

There is nothing intrinsically "wrong" with the traditional set up you both originally agreed to. As other posters have said, what works for one couple is entirely up to them and considering they both discussed and agreed this arrangement, I think those of you who've had a bit of a go at the OP for feeling worried now her DH has unilaterally changed his mind are being somewhat harsh.

Of course .... things happen, and for whatever reason, DH now feels differently about things, and yes, he's entitled to express this. However .... this time round there appears to be no discussion, he's simply laying down the law about what HE wants to happen, and when OP tries to express her concerns about the new set-up he's suggesting they are airily dismissed with this "as and when" argument. Where's the equality in that ?

I agree a rota perhaps sounds a bit student-house-share-ish, but it's not a wholly bad idea, particularly if someone who's never done anything at home is now cutting back his paid working hours. Apart from anything it's practical - he literally may not realise that certain jobs exist (as others have pointed out) ... but besides that, the point is that if an individual was genuine about sharing out household tasks, would they really mind the idea of a rota that much anyway ? It's a clear way of listing what needs to be done, who's working what hours on what days and dividing up stuff according to necessity, skill, availability etc. The fact he seems so reluctant rings big warning bells for me too ... he doesn't want to commit to anything because I suspect he's already earmarked "his" anticipated free time for other things. I also strongly suspect he's the sort of man who'll argue that when it's on his watch "xyz" won't actually "need" (according to him) doing - which is why it's not been done, nothing to do with his laziness of course ! That's another reason why a rota is a very good starting point for a big life change like this ..... so, right from the start, you can both agree on what needs to be done, and to what standard (e.g. "cleaning" the bath isn't just swishing it out with cold water) so there isn't any resentment on either side about someone not pulling their weight.

However, I'm afraid you're on a hiding to nothing here unless he does agree to a full discussion about the nitty gritty of how a home should be run. His comment about you "not pulling your weight" shows he's either very arrogant, or else he's very ignorant - maybe he's both ? Such a remark implies that he thinks you have the life of riley while he's "slogging his guts out" - and he wants some of that too - and key to all of this is getting him to appreciate just how much you do actually do. I second those who've suggested that you leave him to look after DD for a while but unfortunately, the problem with only doing that for a few days is that he simply won't get a realistic idea about everything as coping for 2 or 3 days with a minimum of housework would be pretty easy. He wouldn't, for example, probably even think about the kind of less frequent jobs you don't do day to day, but still have to be factored in nonetheless such as cleaning windows, mowing the lawn, washing the car, bathing the dog or whatever.

TBH, I think he sounds like something of a spoilt brat stamping his feet and having a tantrum. If he'd not commented about you "not pulling your weight" I'd have more sympathy and understanding for him, but I think he honestly thinks you sit about watching daytime TV and meeting friends for coffee. I agree that part of this may well nbe down to the fact that your subserviant/menial role has caused him to see you in a different light to the way he saw you when you first agreed this. This may well be subconscious rather than deliberate but it could also be a very convenient excuse (insisting you have it easier than him) for him to do even less than he already is. Again, as others have said (I think, have only skimmed), he may well work outside the home 9 to 5 or whatever, but his working day has a very defined start and finish to it where the hours outside of that are his to do as he pleases, whilst being waited upon. Your days aren't like that - and you are also working all weekend. IMO, the existing agreement is already unfairly weighted because he gives no regard to the additional responsibilities you also have Sat and Sun, when he has none.

I think that were you to go ahead and get a PT job, the new setup is likely to end in tears and you will feel terribly resentful, a lot more tired, taken for granted even more and wondering why on earth he somehow has more entitlement than you do to R&R. The only way any sort of arrangement works is when all parties feel reasonably content with their lot with a fair division of labour and responsibility. Okay, for lots of us life is crap, no getting away from that, and I'd say that only the fortunate few have jobs they truly enjoy .... but sometimes you literally don't have any choice and just have to get on with it. What would make you particularly unhappy though is feeling that once you get home from the crappy job, your partner takes the piss by leaving all the housework/childcare to you - and that's what I fear will happen here unless you genuinely trust him to pull his weight.

He has got to talk to you or else I'd refuse to do anything to change the status quo until he does. This is supposed to be a partnership, not a dictatorship. I'd start by asking him to explain WHY he thinks I'm not pulling my weight. If it really needs spelling out to him I'd even go so far as to keep a diary detailing what time I got up (and what time he got up), how long this took me, how long that took me etc., add it all up (do the same for the hours he worked), tot up how long I spent watching TV/reading a book/surfing the net etc (do the same for him) .... you get the picture. I wouldn't like to do this - you should be able to trust that he'd take you at your word and appreciate the fact he has clean, ironed clothes, home cooked meals, clean and tidy rooms etc .... but if he refuses to accept you work hard this might be one way to ram it home to him by showing him in black and white.

I almost wonder you know if someone else has been bending his ear about this (workmates, mother in law, friends) ? It's funny how the arrangement worked well but now it's all about turn and he's refusing to discuss alternative solutions properly, instead of making demands. Makes me think that perhaps someone else has planted a seed about him being used or some such similar nonsense ?

[nomoreheels]

I have read all the replies here with interest. Some of them are a bit rude IMO! I think you have been very clear that although you loved being a SAHM, you are trying very hard to compromise. Others are absolutely right to say that if you both work P/T and the same hours that the housework and childcare needs to be 50/50. But of course, it is very easy to advise and sometimes very hard to make this happen in RL.

On the face of it, the fact that he has just refused to discuss a rota is very unreasonable.

But if he's not getting out of bed, and says he feels tired all the time, that is definitely a sign of depression. What is important now is whether he'd be prepared to seek some help.

Does his employer have an Employee Assistance Programme? If so they can usually arrange 6 counselling sessions very quickly.

Anything through the GP primary care counselling service (or any NHS therapy) can have very long waiting lists unfortunately, but of course you'd have to check for your area.

If he refuses to seek help then that is when things become very difficult, because it will seem like there's no way forward. Sometimes time helps (I know from experience) but I would have thought that if someone was stressed out with life, but not severely depressed, and was signed off work, that they would be feeling a bit better after 6 weeks. Especially when you have carried on as normal in the home and they have had plenty of time for R&R.

It's also worrying that the fact that you have agreed to look for work and have started the job hunting process hasn't given him any sort of boost. I would have thought that this would give him some relief from the pressure of being the only earner.

Is there anyone else who could talk to him? A best friend, a brother - someone he would listen to? If he refuses to get help and nothing changes, some sort of intervention might be another angle to try.

There is also the possibility that he is just lazy and a bit shit, but I'm sure you will conclude this for yourself later on after trying to get to the bottom of things.

[compromise]

whatdoiknowanyway,

Ok. That's your opinion. Maybe you're right.

I really don't know what my arse from my elbow anymore.

That's why I posted this.

I wanted to know what the general consensus would be.

And if I am being unreasonable, then I will shut up, get a job and get on with it.

[Litchick]

Look, op, you need to have a talk with your DH.

If he is genuinely ill then he won't be able to look after DD while you work will he?

Explain that to him. Until he is better, you can't look for a job.

As for rotas for the housework etc...where are you living? A mansion?
As long as you LO is well cared for the rest is window dressing.

[GypsyMoth]

Pottonista...... So how come he wants to keep this stressful job, but not change it? If he's so worried why not look elsewhere? Why is he able to get up to go buy car parts but not to get up with his dd???

Op......what had his go said? Has he a medical diagnosis? Medication to help? Or is it self diagnosed?

Would he be out of bed at the crack of Dawn as opposed to gone midday if he had to go get a car part from some place?

[Hullygully]

I agree with catsmother and nomoreheels.

[pottonista]

Has your DP always been like this? If not, then I think you need to take his condition very seriously. I get that you're frustrated and resentful, but he sounds depressed and exhausted and in a dreadful state, poor man.

A bit of perspective: for the first few months after my DP got signed off with his breakdown, it was all he could do to get up, make some toast, watch Bargain Hunt over lunch and then sit in a deckchair in the back garden for the rest of the day. And this is a man who's more of a hausfrau than me, who can't sit still for more than ten minutes, who worked 3 jobs while doing a PhD, who regularly worked 90-hour weeks, who'd give talks in four countries in three days, across three time zones. He couldn't even read for the first 3-4 months of his recovery.

I found it horribly frustrating when DP was going through this - and we didn't even have DC to care for. I just didn't understand what he was going through. I tried my best to be understanding, but sometimes I got really resentful when he'd pull out of plans at the last minute, refuse to do things, and generally appear so selfish. I found it especially hard as I couldn't find any information or stories anywhere about how to cope as the partner of someone who is going through this.

But the thing about burnout is that if that's what is wrong with him, actually your DH is doing the right thing. If he's burned out, he needs to be selfish and rest so he can recover. It's hard on everyone else, but that's just the way it is.

[counttothree]

I'm quite interested in why you'v enot responded to either of my posts. I've been through similar and I've said what this sounds like to me. Please listen.