A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

Niceguy in that case you're not very aware.

Juries are notoriously unwilling to convict rapists and demand a much higher burden of proof for rape, than any other crime. For some reason, labellign a man a burglar, a murderer or a fraudster doesn't bother them as much - but to label him a rapist is something they can't countenance. So they accept the most bizarre and unlikely defences just in case he's innocent when they show no such concern for the potential innocence of a fraudster or burglar. Because after all, rape is just an occupational hazard of being a woman really isn't it, not such a big deal, having your body invaded without your consent. Whereas having your home invaded, blimey that's awful and needs to be punished.

Is the biggest problem with rape the fact that there are rarely any witnesses. This results in a his word vs hers situation and the court will rightly find him not guilty so the CPS won't even bother to take it to court

LOL at mafia.

What does tht mean in this context I wonder.

No No Werdator...don't step into the line of fire!!!! Run Run!!!! Save yourself! No place here for pointing out facts.

Juvenile.

TheShriekingHarpy

Baroness Stern also requested an "end to the widespread use of misleading rape conviction data. In particular the 6% rape conviction figure".

Do you get your agenda from The False Rape Society

Go and read the entire report produced by Baroness Scotland - she is concerned that this statement reduces the number of women coming forward and that it dominates the agenda.

Here is an exert from the summary:

The conviction rate has taken over the debate

Conviction rates for rape are the subject of considerable political and media attention. Much is said about the conviction rate for rape being six per cent in England and Wales. The six per cent figure is widely
quoted. We found in carrying out this review that it was known and used by almost everyone in the field. Some have found it helpful as a campaigning tool in arguing for an improvement in the way rape cases are dealt with. Others found it misleading and deeply unhelpful in building confidence in victims and increasing the number of cases
reported to the police that could possibly go forward to a prosecution.
Many expressed concern at the widespread use of this figure without analysis or explanation. The way this conviction rate figure is calculated is unusual. Conviction
rates are not published or even measured in this way for any other crime so it is very difficult to make a comparison. The term ?conviction rate? usually describes the percentage of all the cases brought to court
that end with the defendant being convicted. When dealing with rape the term has come to be used in a different way, and describes the
percentage of all the cases recorded by the police as a rape that end up with someone being convicted of rape.

We have looked closely at the information about convictions for rape and it is clear to us that the figure for convictions of people of all ages charged with rape1 (as the term is normally used in relation to crime) is 58 per cent. The confusion arises from mixing up the conviction rate with the process of attrition. ?Attrition? is the process by which a number of the cases of rape initially reported do not proceed, perhaps because the complainant decides not to take the case any further, there is not enough evidence to prosecute, or the case is taken to court and the suspect is acquitted.

The attrition rate figure has been the cause
of considerable concern, and attempts to reduce it are behind many of the reforms that have been introduced in recent years. Our terms of reference also ask us to look at ways in which it can be further reduced
and we have made recommendations to that effect, taking into account the many difficulties that stand in the way of successfully prosecuting cases of rape.

However, it is clear to us that the way the six per cent conviction rate
figure has been able to dominate the public discourse on rape, without explanation, analysis and context, has been to the detriment of public understanding and other important outcomes for victims. Since this
is an area of such public interest and debate, and many organisations
have an interest in this information and what it means, we feel the
presentation of the statistics could be looked at again and we so
recommend.

@Stacey. Or could it be that as LTW has pointed out that in most other types of crime, other corroborating evidence can be used such as DNA, CCTV etc.

So in the absence of any other evidence and where there is no argument IF sex took place that yes, a jury is FORCED to acquit.

That to me sounds more logical than accusing the entire police force and men in general of not caring about rape.

When a rape case get to court don't 58% of them end in conviction unfair to say Juries are unwilling to convict.

I accuse rapists and their apologists of not caring about rape.

Also society as a whole (which includes women, of course) being far too happy to not rock the boat and examine the widespread embracing of rape myths because it's just easier

The reason that 58% are convicted once they get to court, is because most reported rapes don't get to court. Generally only the most vicious and violent ones do, the ones the CPS are sure the jury might be willing to convict on, because there are horrible injuries to the victim along with the DNA evidence.

But even then, a defence of rough consensual sex is worth a try. After all, everyone knows women simply trawl the streets looking for men to fuck them violently in dark alleyways - ask Stephen Fry.

dittany- the problem with rape is a lack of evidence apart from the victims word and that is never going to be enough nor should it be

I suspect that the apparent 'lack of interest' shown by police in investigating rape or 'believing victims' has a lot to do with the fact that police officers know from experience just how hard rape convictions are to secure given the standard of proof required.

If a woman comes to a police station to report she has been raped and there were a) no witnesses or b) several days after the event or c) she was drunk at the time or d) and has only a hazy recollection of events or e) there is no physical evidence of injury the police know full well that the likelihood is her evidence will not stand up to cross examnation - even before the prejudices of the jury are encountered.

Given limited police resources under these circumstances police officers may well (sometimes too readily) conclude that a successful case cannot be brought even if they personally believe on a balance of probabilities she is telling the truth.

TSH - where did I say men have a monopoly on violence? I said at 21:29:

Men on the whole are more violent to men and women. Some women are violent to men and other women and most men are not violent to anyone. But if the victim is a woman it is more than likely the perpetrator will be a man.

Am well aware of Erin Pizzey and her views on the capacity and responsibility of women for violence - any copy of Prone to Violence is hard to find. And I don't disagree that women can be very violent and that men can be the victims of DV and should be supported and not ridiculed in reporting this. Lots of men would not hit back because they are horribly aware of their relative strength and so are in a very difficult position and effectively unable to physically defend themselves. So how many men are killed by their violent partners (not that you need to be killed to be taken seriously - but if men are not reporting DV willingly it may be the only statistics available on DV against men)?

Would be interested to read that governmental study you mention - any links please?

I wonder if a concerted campaign to make rape as universally despised as child sex abuse is would make a difference. Either to the incidence rate and/or the conviction rate.

A victim is of course a winess to a crime but if their account is the only piece of evidence there is that a crime was committed then you're never going to convicted as the accused will just deny it.

Wow..NiceGuy2 - really living up to your name here. Very much hope your mother/sister/daughter has never been and is never raped because rape survivors need all the support they can get and to have a son/brother/father with your views would just be too awful. Same for LTW - hope you never have to deal with the repercussions in your personal life as opposed to at work. Or even your son NiceGuy2? Men can be raped too sadly but I guess if he'd ever had any form of homosexual sex previously that would just prove he was asking for it.

You're kind of like a QED to every point made on here - a real life posting example of the kind of crap views some men hold that are so offensive. My sympathies to your wife/girlfriend if you are capable of being in a relationship. Makes me very sad.

BelleDeJour, three men a month are killed in domestic violence incidents in the UK.