to think most would not really want a secondary modern

[inkyfingers]

OK, tell me why the 'grammar school system' is good for the 85% who don't get a place? I love the pace and challenge etc the GS offers (as many MNers tell me), but how does the alternative serve the huge majority of pupils? (cos surely a 'system' has to benefit as many as possible??).

If it's a really good wheeze, then the GS supporters would surely be happy if their own DC don't get places?

maybe he wasn't that gifted in maths

Dream, I suspect your right. :o

We provide for students who are gifted at both.

We don't get better exam results than the grammar as they only have students at the top of the ability spectrum. However at A Level when you compare our most able with their most able we do tend to do better. For that reason we have kids from the grammar applying to come to our sixth form.

We are getting stronger because parents are choosing us over the grammar. Very few kids from our catchment even bother applying to the grammar so we do not lose our top 25%. We lose a few children but they tend to be students who would struggle socially in a comp rather than for academic reasons.

well sea- he gained a first in MMath, and had a choice of 4 funded PHDs from RG universities. He's not Roger Penrose, no, but fairly gifted at maths.

We do well, in part because of the existence of the grammar. The management team are all strong believers in the comprehensive system. We know that in order to provide a true comprehensive we have to cater for our most able or they will go.

A comp is not going to get 100% A*-C because they are comprehensive. The grammar will always get better headline figures because of their intake.

I think there will be very few comprehensives that get better results than grammar schools

From memory at our local grammar 50% of students got all As and A at GCSE. I do not think that is a figure to get excited about and I am confident that if those pupils stayed at our school a higher proportion would get an A or A.

Huddspur they are not going to get a higher A*-C pass rate because of the nature of the intake. When you look at the headline figures we do not get better results. That does not mean that we could not get better results for those pupils if they were at our comp.

I said we get better exam results when you compare our most able students with those at the grammar school.

lequeen- I think she means that they can better cater for the most academic pupils better at the comprehensive then they can at the grammar school

I would actually be quite pissed off if I sent my dd to the grammar where she would have to endure dull lessons, teaching to the test, hothousing, limited curriculum and crap facilities if she didn't at least come out with A*s across the board. It is the least they can do IMO.

Yes they do, I am not sure of th A figure as the stats we have are looking at students getting A and As.

"schools should be all inclusive and offer everything to all pupils of all abilities. there should be no grammar, selective or religious schools and chilren should attend the local school in their area by foot.

head teachers would be in charge of budgets and stream children accordingly.

more male teachers are needed and more physical activity.

children should all be given equal opportunities for education. our system is ridiculous as it stands and just segretates communities"

Couldn't agree with you more, SEA. Very well put.

waterloo- I highly doubt that your school caters better to the more talented students than the local grammar school. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding grammar schools

It is a recent trend LeQueen and something we have purposefully aimed for. As I said earlier it is quite rare for students in our catchment to apply for the grammar. As our repuatation has spread we have also taken students from the grammar at the end of GCSE into our sixth form which again boosts our results.

Once we started to get an almost true comprehensive intake it just took a huge focus on our most able students. We recruit staff with the best degrees, we look after our staff, we have facilities that mean the best staff want to come to us. We expect all staff to be accountable. Our staff work bloody long hours, it is not a school for the faint hearted. We run masterclasses, rigourous tracking, have high standards of discipline especially in our top sets. We sent our staff into grammar schools and top independents to see what they were doing so we could learn from them.

I hardly have a chip on my shoulder - I worked in a grammar for years. I do not think the local ones are doing as well as they should but I am sure there are better ones out there.